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11 arrested for disrupting Israeli ambassador
February 8th, 2010, 6:01 pm · 657 Comments · posted by Gary Robbins, science writer-editor
Updated at 2:54 p.m. Tuesday
Eleven people were arrested Monday evening during a raucous lecture at UC Irvine where Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren came to talk about U.S.-Israel relations. (UCI earlier said that 12 were arrested.)
Here are the identities of the 8 UCI students and 3 UC Riverside students who were arrested.
Oren was interrupted 10 times Monday while trying to give his speech before 500 people at the UCI Student Center, where there was heavy security. Oren took a 20 minute break after the fourth protest, asked for hospitality and resumed his speech, only to be interrupted again by young men yelling at him every few minutes. Many members of the audience also applauded Oren.
After the 10th interruption, several dozens students who opposed Oren’s talk got up and walked out and staged a protest outside. It is not clear whether they were members of the UCI Muslim Student Union, which issued an email earlier in the day condemning Oren’s appearance on campus.
Oren continued talking, completing his speech at 6:42 p.m. Originally, he planned to take questions from the audience. But that w
as canceled after the repeated delays.
The second person yelled about “Zionism.”
The third yelled, “Israel.” The fourth could not be clearly heard.
UCI Police Chief Paul Henisey said it is not clear whether any of the protesters are UCI students.
Mark Petracca, a UCI political science professor, lost his temper and yelled, “This is embarrassing … Shame on all of you.”
UCI Chancellor Michael Drake also told the audience that he was embarrassed by the outburst.
Drake and Petracca were booed by many people, and applauded by others.
Hours earlier, UCI’s Muslim Student Union said in an email today that its members “condemn and oppose the presence of Michael Oren, the ambassador of Israel to the United States, on our campus today. We resent that the Law School and the Political Science Department on our campus have agreed to cosponsor a public figure who represents a state that continues to break international and humanitarian law and is condemned by more UN Human Rights Council resolutions than all other countries in the world combined.”
The Jewish Federation Orange County said earlier in the day that it had been informed that Oren’s speech at UC Irvine late today might be disrupted by protestors.
Shalom C. Elcott, president of JFOC, said in a statement today that, “We have been informed that some students may attempt to disrupt the event. We want to assure the community that our goal is to create a positive environment — indeed, a sacred space – for open dialogue, intellectual debate and civil discourse that befits a university setting.”
This was not the first time that there has been confrontation at a political lecture at UCI.
In January 2007, Daniel Pipes of the Middle East Forum was interrupted by protesters at UCI while giving a speech titled, “The Threat to Israel’s Existence.” The protesters ended up getting into a brief shouting match with some members of the audience.
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How sad! That’s not freedom of speech when you interupt someone like that. That’s just plain rude regardless of the message. Sad.
This is these students’ university… they had EVERY right to stand up to this horrible human being.
Actually, no. The students don’t own the university. They choose to go there and agree to abide by the university’s rules in doing so. The right to free speech does not give you the right to trample on somebody else’s property rights.
It’s beautiful when people stand up for what they believe in. Tonight was a wonderful demonstration of free speech by these brave students!
I am impressed that none of the comments talk about peace and harmony. I would like to share with everybody that peace is achievable, if not between our nations, it can be done between our peoples, especially in a multicultural environment like a University in this great country. It is my deep desire that we may all get along one day, whether in Israel, Palestine, or America, our universal rights are there to protect us, but they also give us responsabilities that cannot be evaded. Just as the Great Prophet Muhhamed said “Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.”, our Talmud says”That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow.” Please, let us try and remember that tolerance and humility are the path to a better society, to better families, and also to a better life. Peace.
Roland, you sound like you’re envying them for the privilages they have as students. Sorry to burst your bubble, but in reality without these student’s tutions UCI wouldn’t stand a chance to stay open, especially during these times. KUDOS TO ALL THE STUDENTS WHO STAND UP FOR THEIR RIGHTS!!!
Selma,
OCPeace: Please explain to me why the different factions of Islam hate each other so much that they continue to murder their Islamic brethren.
These are not brave students. Bravery is when a regional leader decides to boldly pursue peace, as Anwar Sadat did in 1977. We could easily see a comprehensive peace settlement in the Middle East within the next ten years if this type of “bravery” is discouraged, and mutual cooperation is encouraged.
As King Abdullah of Jordan correctly pointed out just this week, global terrorism and Iran are slowly demonstrating that resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict is becoming much more desirable to both sides so that the Israelis and the Arab world can mutually combat those developing and significant threats to both people, and to the entire Western world.
Alex: Obviously, you’re not a student and probably didn’t finish high school. “This is these students’…..”
Nice try Ed… but you fail at your attempt to take attention from the purpose of my statement. These students illustrate free speech at its finest and succeeded in making their voices heard!
Why are insulting people just to get your ridiculously unnecessary point across??? Be civilzed and participate in the political process, and seriously it is time to grow up! (had to say it
FD.
Why are these students in this country anyways. They don’t respect our traditions. Every stinking one of them should go back their own countries where they all enjoy so much freedom. Sorry if the truth hurts. They make me ill
Zionism is a cancer. Wake up America! We cannot pay the Zionist to perpetuate their free killing spree and land stealing.
Name one muslim that has done anything good for mankind.
Ughh….. Can’t.
There you go, that is why everyone hates them.
this question could lead to a very long answer but i will only mention a few… Muslims invented: surgery, coffee, flying machine, university, algebra, optics, music, tooth brush, the crank, hospitals and many more.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/29/muslim.inventions/index.html
btw. what does your question have to do with the fact that students protested a guy who represents a state that continues to break international and humanitarian law and is condemned by more UN Human Rights Council resolutions than all other countries in the world combined
I agree, Harry! If you want to learn more, look at what Israel did for Haiti. No one knows about these things because Jews are too modest about the good they do for this world.
Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi… invented algebra. i guess its not good for your since algebra made you fail at life.
You are kidding, right? that is what college is for, so you can learn that stuff. I don’t know much about Muslims myself, but I do know enough to lead me to the conclusion that most of the stuff you see around was either a direct or indirect result of Muslim’s inventions. Let’s begin… Chemistry… No, seriously you should go to school for that. LOL
Egyptian President Abwar Sadat and 1978 Nobel Prize recipient was was one. Sadat who was willing to stand up to his fellow Arab states and come to peace with Israel, a peace that has lasted for over 3 decades.
Muhammad ibn Zakariya al-Razi was another, one of the founders of Modern Chemistry, a pioneer neurosurgery, opthalmology, and considered by many as the father of pediatrics at a time when most of Europe was in the middle of the so called “Dark Ages.” (865-925)
Ahmed Zewail, 1999 Nobel Laureate in Chemistry
Shirin Ebadi, 2003 Peace Prize winner for her work for human rights in Iran.
Abdus Salam, 1979 Nobel Prize winner in Physics
The list can go on and on. Muslim figures in history have contributed much to our science, mathematics, literature, and peace. These agitators confuse democracy with silencing those with whom they disagree with. They are not representative of the vast number of Muslim students that I know at UCI.
Muslims invented *music*?
What was King David doing with that harp back in the whatever-hundreds BC?
For that matter, what was Og the Caveman doing with his bongo drum?
Maybe they mean a particular *kind* of music. Reggae, was it?
Malcolm-X. any more questions?
here you go, knock yourself out.
who knows.. maybe your brain might actually absorb something in the process
well harry here are some acheivements made by muslims…
they started currency (i.e. money)
they had many great discoveries in mathematics, astronomy, chemistry, medicine, and engineering.
maybe you should go back and study before leaving some stupid as comments on here.
you sound as ignorant as our own government running our country
Actually Alex, this is not “these” students university. It belongs to the taxpayers, that would be the general public. They had no right to make such rude remarks.
Again, taxes did not pay for this event. Event at UCI are funded by the school or a student organization and in both cases that is not taxpayer money since the school’s funding is from tuition, which students pay. So no matter how you look at it, students funded this event.
NO they did not do rude remarks what they did was freedom of speech
and what makes this guy a “horrible human being”?
Being non-muslim? Yea!! That is what they believe.
Oren used to write (maybe still does) for The New Republic. During the short conflict before Obama’s Inauguration, he argued in TNR for Israel to basically go to all out war in Gaza without regard for collateral damage. Basically, to just show off their military might.
hes a horrible human being because he stands behind the work of isreal in the genocides, and the killings of innocent people.
its not because he isnt muslim because to be a muslim is to respect the books of God ( torah, bible, and koran) but no mention of respect for the zionist movement or the mass murders
Your wrong Alex old buddy! If they had kept their mouths shut, not only would they might have learned something, but they may have even been able to voice there own opinions during “Questions and Answers”. Israel is a friend of the US in a region of the world where the US has few friends….a handful of wrong-headed and rude Muslim Symps will never change that!
Editor’s note: The level of hostility in many of these comments is way out of line. I will be deleting all personal attacks, off-topic remarks and snark.
this is the closest I can get to replying to garys post…..
did you really just use the word ” snark”
I gotta give you credit, you use dit in a sentence, not many could do that
just mesing with ya, but seriously, this is one of those discussions that is going to get heated on 4 fronts, so we gotta expect some.
you have the muslim side, the jewish side, the ones who think the protestors are protected by free speech, and the side that thinks they arnt
By the way jerry for your info the reason why US doesnt have much friends around the world is due to the government mentality of attacking before finding a common ground
just a thought
This is MY university, as a California citizen, and I applaud the university for enforcing reasonable time, place, and manner rules. Civilized people can protest without denying others’ right to speak.
Good points Thomas!
I am appalled that students and many posting here think that it is freedom of speech to shout down someone you oppose.
No, that is denying them their freedom of speech. True freedom of speech would be to allow the person you vehemently disagree with to speak and then go ahead and protest or whatever–not shout him down.
That is not American values to not allow those you disagree with to speak!
well said, Thomas.
Protesting is fine. But yelling out to not let others voice their opinion or interupting a lecture isn’t a form of free speech. It is a disruption. It is a heckler veto. Let people hear what the guy had to say and if it didn’t make sense people are smart enough at a university to call it bs. Then you can provide your own case outside to oppose the speech inside and let people make up their own mind.
No, it is not these student’s university. It belongs to the public and to the taxpayers. These students, like their culture of origin, have never created the substantial wealth that a university like this requires. They are interlopers in this country that will be squashed like the bugs they are.
Alex,
This is not free speech. We must hear both sides and the LIES coming from the Arabs and Palestinians are very sad. Also shouting down someone only makes them more credible.
Why do you not call the suicide bombers and terrorists who rocket Israel “horrible human beings”? What about the Arabs who crashed the jets into the buildings in New York?
Grow up man, atleast make your thinking broad !
These ‘terrorists’ came into existance only as a reaction to the horrible war crimes being conducted by Israel (defended and supported by the US). You go to some land, start destroying the houses of people as you think its your divine promised land and you you expect them not to defend themselves ??
As for the Arabs that crashed the jets into the buildings … How do you know if its true or not? Just because you watched it on NEWS and saw the shameful hypocritic media explaining the whole situation as if it was a part of some movie?
As for the lies and free speech, who destroyed Al Jazeera’s Broadcast station in Afghanistan? and Why? Just because Al Jazeera had told the truth that the US forces had not conquered Kabul (which happened atleast a month later) and CNN/FOX were showing that Kabul was taken ???
this is where you are wrong, it is not their university, it is a university where people go to study and learn and also be civillized. And why is Mr. Oren a horrible person? Educate yourself before you insult others.
It is obvious that Alex is a sympathizer of the protestors, which is his privilege and constutional right to be. However, he needs to be corrected for his comment that the the university belongs to the students. The university is part of the educational system established by the State of California. It exists because the taxpayers of the state believe that the state should provide higher education to its citizens and those from out of state. The university is not some political playground for students who are disenchantced with the American body politic to engage in behavior which seeks to abridge the US constutional right of free speech. Unlike foreign countries, the US extends its constutional freedoms to invited guests on its soil and to those who come and live as resident aliens. Yes, the students do have a constutional right to protest, under our constution but as students enrolled in the unviersity they have a legal responsibility to conduct themselves in such a way that it does not harm the or infringe on the rights of others.
Editor’s note: UCIStudent’s message was deleted. No one was advocating murder on campus.
now you know why they call it uc islam!
IMHO, I think it has to do in large that the majority of Muslims are very bright and high achievers, unfortunately, unlike some of us who are in their old and backwards ways. Most of Muslims that I know are either physicians, engineers, or lawyers. Kinda makes me envy them in a good way.
or uc israel.
That wasn’t what you others that are upset said when President Ahmadinejad was invited to speak at Columbia University a few years ago. Stop being a hypocrite.
Well said! Thank you.
There is no comparison.
The President of Iran has been condemned by the UN for his racist and very inflammatory statements and denying that Israel has the right to exist.
Ahmadinejad’s statements were taken out of context. Even if they weren’t mis interpreted they were merely statements.
Israel has been putting those exact statements into actions against the Palestinians for more than 50 years.
You do know that Israel has been censured by the United Nations hundreds of times for its illegal occupation of Palestinian land?
And what Ahmadinejad said was basically states come and go, history has seen many, and that the racist apartheid state of Israel will be consigned to history too
lol i forget about that when muslim speaks they’re extremists however when jew speaks they’re heros BS
its funny thanx for the reminder
Really? It’s rude to interrupt a public speaker? How about Rep. Joe Wilson who shouted out during the State of the Union speech? He earned millions in donations for that stunt.
Of course the OC rethugs treat this guy as a hero because he stood up to the “colored” man who isn’t even a citizen of this country. At least that’s the mentality of the simple minds that roam this county.
If this is satire its brilliant, if its not satire-well then we can think your comments on the polar opposite of brilliant.
Think a little before posting!
There is a huge difference between an outburst of one statement and totally trying to drown out a speaker that you disagree with.
what i see in the video is individual coments being said out loud so to be heard over a microphone and walking out of the hall to show dis aproval if im not blind and death i dontn you think you can shout down some body with a mic. the one with the mic could pause un till the one who whises to leave to be escorted. if the whole hall emties then so be it.
I was the guy who stood up and shouter…”FREE HAM FOR EVERYBODY!!!!’
Splendid, if true.
I picture both sides suddenly stopping screaming at each other long enough to pelt you with their shoes.
i swear bro that funnny lol i would crack up if i was their
I agree. As a Protestant myself, I would think these Muslim kids would be more polite to a Jewish person. Just because that’s how you are allowed to act in Iran or Saudi Arabia, doesn’t mean that’s how you can act here in the USA.
These Muslim students should have sat politely and heard what the Ambassador had to say, and then engage in healthy and intellectual discourse during the Q&A session at the end. Shameful of them for behaving that way!
Well said!
LOL “as a Protestant” yourself, as if declaring your religion makes you sound more civilized.. These “Muslim Kids” were just expressing their freedom of speech against something that they believe strongly in.. These kids aren’t from “Iran or Saudi Arabia..” They are also Palestinians, Syrians, Egyptians, Pakistani etc etc.. For some of them, the harm Israel is causing is affecting their OWN HOMES AND FAMILIES. For them to protest in such a way is justified for WHAT THEIR OWN PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH!! They acted with passion, as any HUMAN BEING WOULD. I’m pretty sure your “protestant self” would begin to show anger and passion if your own family was being murdered… So passionate to the point that you’d start acting like an “Iraqi or Saudi”.. I hope my sarcasm helped you spot the stupidity in your post..
I agree, Troy. These students would have had their interests better served had they simply listened to what the ambassador had to say and then asked questions during Q&A. If they were really angry, a protest outside or a letter campaign would have followed. Now they just look like foolish trouble makers.
Myra–knock off the personal attacks please. The article was about students behaving rudely and shouting someone down, using ad homonym attacks laced with horrible accusations without any evidence to support them. Just like you demonstrated in that immature outburst lambasting a single commenter you disagreed with. Shameful!
So your protestant self had no issues with Ahmadinejad being hooted by young Jewish-Christian students?
Editor’s note: Robert Vavakian blocked from commenting further for trying to post profane and hostile comments. Gail’s comment that UCI didn’t take proper precautions to handle the crowd is wrong. There were at least 16 police officers in attendance, and audience members had to go through a metal detector before entering Pacific Ballroom.
yes no isues if ahmed supports the killing of children he should also be protested this is to do with dealing with injustice to children in the name of democracy and self defence of a nation, doesnt matter whis religion
Troy is correct!
Are you serious? First of all, you dont have to be Muslim to disagree with or oppose a Jew or Israeli beliefs. Secondly, CLEARLY, you haven’t been to too many universities in the nation because this sort of thing happens ALL the time at controversial lectures. I’ve been to several lectures or speeches by Jewish and Muslim speakers or Israeli/Palestinian supporters and both have been disrupted by boos and outbursts incessantly.
What these kids did may not have been pleasant for you, but it sure as hell doesn’t mean they need to get arrested.
Also — SEAN — wrote a msg earlier and after reading it, you must be the most ignorant person on this forum posting a comment. Seriously, please do us all a favor and stop talking. Or if you’re so ill, go become a better person because you’re just feeding BS to everyone right now.
Judy: Make your point without insulting other readers.
Actually it IS. If someone kills your father and rapes your mother and sister and gets away with it, I’m sure you wouldnt be calm and collective.
Freedom of speech, ah
A-you cant be sure the ambassador did any raping.
B-If one ethnic group stole land and persecuted my people my solution would not be act like barbarians; nor would justify me sending my children in with an explosive laden backpack to destroy their children.
C- I can only wonder if all of your thoughts and opinions are so intellectually crude.
A. no body said ambassador did that it
B no one in the hall had explosives
C i wonnder how intellectually crude your imaggination is
d
So say Hitler comes along or one of his modern day avatars. You’d push for his having his say, right?
There are times when one must draw a line. That line these days has to be against zionist propaganda.
Right. Because Hamas propaganda is so much more honest.
The reason most of the students did not want the terrorist to speak is that his racist terror state’s action speak so loudly that his PR stunt should not have been paid for by this state’s tax dollars. Notice the police there to maintain intimidation but as the Palestinians have should tanks and jets don’t deter them we should officers recieving OT to protect this terrorist be any different. What is there to hear, more theft of homes, more killed because of their democratic choice that our past president oversaw, more aid needed because of their inability to make friends outside of ignorant Americans. These students could not sit idle of watch their Universiy be made a mockery of. Gaza is largest prison in the world all because of their choice. What did you think they would sit there and wait to die, I’d fire rockets at the terrorists that used weapons to drive ne from my home as well! We are nation so brainwashed that we don’t see things for what they really are. As for Israel being friend, sure we all should buy our friends. Go around handing $100 dollar bills, see how many friends you make
Please, look at the list of terrorist around the world and then call the ambassodor a terrorist. What do you call the attacks to the twin towers, the train in Spain and London, the club in Bali and so forth? When the Israelis defend themselves they are called terrorists, when the Palestinians send thousands of rockets to Israel, deploy bombs killing anybody on sight (and yes, innocent people) I don’t see you or your people complaining about it, it is always the poor Palestinians against the might Israeli army. Well, with the millions that the US and Saudi Arabia has given to your people, why don;’t you build roads, schools, universities, HOSPITALS, theatres and all the things that you enjoy in this civilized country instead of always complaining and accusing Israel or the US for all the bad that happens in this world??? Where were your people when Haiti was struck by nature??
Shame on UCI for giving a criminal (representing a country that violated MORE UN resolutions than any other country) cloaked as an “ambassador” a platform….where are the right minded people?
It saddens me that my country also gives my tax money to the criminal state. Shame on UCI.
Shame on the man who said “You will fail your exams”.
That is exactly what happened to Jewish children growing up in Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
If he is a member of the university staff, I hope they fire him.
Shame on the university for inviting a man from a country that has committed war crimes.
True. They should have protested outside the lecture if they disagreed with something he said. A university should be a place where ideas are exchanged. Not where someone is shouted down and not allowed to be heard.
This happens in Universities all across the country. The progressives disrupt whenever their world view is not met.
This is hardly representative of the behavior of progressives. Also, nowhere in the blog post did gary mention anyone’s political ideologies.
You should read the university newspapers across the country. Happens all the time. The best part, most report it as a good thing.
Would you identify one university newspaper that would depict what happened on Monday as a “good thing?” Preventing speech is never a good thing, whether it be an anti-Israeli imam or an Israeli ambassador.
Islamic students progressive? I think Popcorn is upside down; try ultra conservative. There is nothing progressive about these loud mouthed anti-free speech people. If they want to protest they have full rights to do it outside the building, or even ask for equal time. Shouting at the speaker, no matter what the subject, is just ignorant. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me if these loud mouths will soon be considered heros by their right wing, ultra conservative, religious extremest nut wings. Which reminds me of a guy name Joe who yelled liar to someone. Isn’t he now a hero to many right-wing, ultra-conservative, religious extremists?
so religious = right wing?
i dont think so indyman.
ultra conservatives dont restrict free speech. you should really study your political ideologies.
i attend this university, and these students who interrupted oren are strong supporters of left wing ideology and obama. these students believe in a strong centralized state with the main difference being it controlled by sharia law. there is nothing right wing about this.
“loud mouths”???? it is funny how your whole point is based on assumption and rhetorical questions! Now thats what I call a credible source <- Sarcastic.
Anti-free speech? They were arrested for using their right to free speech. They are victims to those who are anti-free speech. They are allowed to protest inside of that building inside of that room because guess what? They paid for it. Their tuition dollars make the school what it is and brings speakers to the campus and their nation’s constitution (the US, mind you) states that they have the right to free speech so they are allowed to speak their mind anywhere in this country, and especially on a campus that they pay for.
If we want to discuss heroes then why not villains? This man is partly responsible for the killing of thousands of innocent civilians in Palestine yet we honor him and bring him into our campus, no no no INTO OUR COUNTRY!? and attempt to allow him to educate our students when he has played a hand in the destruction of universities and schools within Palestine? Not to mention the destruction of homes and lives there as well.
This man should have been jailed a long time ago, not flown out to Irvine to boast about Israel’s wonderful skills as a oppressive ruler over thousand of innocent people.
As a UCI grad, I find it shameful that you don’t understand the concept of free speech. Free speech does not allow you to go on private property (UCI campus) to shout what ever you want. You and others who are protesting are probably the same ones that cheer on Hamaas and other teorrist organizations. Have you or any of your buddies ever protested Hamaas deliberate attempt to attack innocent civilians?
No, sorry, universities ARE for free speech – that means that all viewpoints are to be represented free from interference by those who disagree with them. All will have an opportunity to have their say. But shouting down ANYONE who speaks in a public forum on a university campus should not be allowed, and campus police should have arrested everyone who attempted to disrupt this speaker’s forum. Protests are fine, but only when they do not interfere with others’ right to hear the speech. These protesters were given the right to protest and leaflet outside the the venue, and since it was a public speech, they were also free to come inside and listen, and if there was a Q&A following they could have asked questions or expressed opinions then, in a proper forum. But shouting down any speaker is an egregious disruption of that speaker’s free speech and the audience’s right to hear that speaker’s message, and those who disrupted the speech rightly should have been expelled from the building and, if they resisted, arrested.
you tell em, uci student!
UCI Student, I think you need to go back and study what free speech is all about. It is about the right to express you opinions, but also about the right of those you disagree with to express their opinions.
Shouting down a speaker is not only rude, it shows great disrespect for freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is a 2 way street–not just for those you agree with but also for those you disagree with! But you don’t seem to understand that.
wow. You are misguided if you think that is an exercise of free speech.
Indy, it’s typically “progressives” who are the nastiest towards Israel; granted, that’s more a function of the progressive mindset’s enmity towards whoever is more closely affiliated with western civilization than of any real sympathy for Islam, whose “conservative” religious strictures they’d otherwise hate. Strange bedfellows.
Everything good in the left peaked in the 60’s but at the exact same time it also laid the foundations for it’s downturn, in the Vietnam / Watergate era. Since then, when Progressives march through classrooms or shout down speakers they are exercising “free speech” and “speaking truth to power” in their way of thinking. When anyone else wants to talk, that’s speech to be prevented, interrupted. And if anyone breaks up or interrupts THEIR protests or turn at the mike, it’s “nazis” trying to “stifle dissent”. If they can get themselves whipped up into a victim frenzy, they don’t have to tolerate any rights of others. They just don’t get the difference between the march in Selma or on Washington and interrupting someone else’s say. The whole mindset is juvenile, rude, hypocritical and totally abandons all that was good about liberalism. True liberalism is about genuine love for all mankind, belief in the dignity and rights of the smallest individual as against the tyranny of the state or of the majority or of the dominant religion, a humanistic outlook that finds worth in the individual and tries to keep us as free as possible as against the various kinds of authority. Now the left IS the authority in many countries and comprises about half the population here but the left never perceives itself as capable of victimizing anyone else. History teaches otherwise. And here, the sympathizers for these thugs have been duped by folks with a mindset that is not in the LEAST left, liberal or tolerant – and have turned against the most liberal, humanistic and humanizing country in all that part of the world if not beyond. Disgusting.
What makes the protesters from yesterday progressive?
Muslims want their rights and speech protected but disrupt the Jew? Go figure…one would think they want to completely silence the small satan-Israel and then comes the great satan-USA…right guys? How many nations have been set aside for Jews? The answer is one. How many Arab nations? Oddly someone is looking very selfish, downright greedy and it is not the Jews.
This is not how it goes, have you set aside a nation for the native americans?!! The state of Israel has committed crimes against humanity and it should be put on trial. Israel’s representantives should neve be invited to speak until they pay for their crimes.
Go UCI students, you showed this guy a taste of his own medicine.
Alex, Get your facts straight. Have you been to Israel? I have. I’ve met people there on both sides. Get your facts straight before you accuse Israel of crimes against humanity. Where are you getting your information? From liberal newspapers? I’d suggest visiting the country for yourself, rather than relying on the media.
Stacey, I think if there is anyone who needs to get their facts straight it’s you
regardless of the fact that you have “been” to Israel, visiting Israel reveals only half, if any part, of the whole story.
you should be asking yourself “why would anyone want to hate israel?” look indepth and the truth will reveal itself
check this documentary out it gets to the point
http://www.vbs.tv/watch/vbs-news/palestine-vs-israel-against-the-wall-1-of-2
there are multiple parts so make sure to see all of them
Stacy open your eyes. Talk about newspapers and media blah blah blah all you want. Its 2010. PICTURES dont lie. NUMBERS dont lie. Check your facts.
Its rocks vs. guns/bombs….who is causing the damage? There are some great safe parts in Isreal as well. Going to the country doesnt help. Going to the GAZA STRIP and the borders is where the action is at. I’ve been there and seen the unfairness.
Get out of your safe box and watch Occupation 101 (http://www.occupation101.com/)
LOL stacy I know SO many people that have been to Palestine and israel and no its not pretty.
HEY STACEY
try seeing what goes on in palestine
if you DID visit isreal why didnt you go next door and see whats going on in Gaza
thats where all the crimes against humanity is happening
just try it out next time
You Will Learn A Lot
Next time you go there, why don’t you do a tour of the West Bank and Gaza, go through the checkpoints, watch the settlers intimidate, harass beat the Palestinians, uproot their villages, damage their homes, take a drive on the settlers-only roads and visit the graves of the thousands of Palestinians killed in the last decade alone, visit the estimated 7,000 being held prisoner without charges or trial, and THEN tell us about where you got your information from.
Alex… THANK YOU!!!!
I am glad you brought up the Native Americans!
The Jews are in this case the Native Americans who got exiled from Ancient Israel by the Roman Empire.
Then it became under Christian rule by Constantine.
Then Arab Islamic Rule.
Then Christian Rule (Crusaders)
Then Islamic Rule again.
Then British Rule.
The only difference with the story of the Native Americans and the Jews is that the Jews managed to finally return to their homeland and declare independence after 2,000 years in exile as refugees.
——–
GO UCI students, you showed this guy (and all of UCI) a taste of Sha’aria law censorship!
There was no such thing as countries back then, only city states, some of which were not Jewish. Besides if a Native American tried to take back his land from under your home you would beat him over the head. And that was only a couple hundred years ago.
If you re putting everyone who has allegedly committed crimes against humanity, then when will GW Bush and his minons be on trial. At the least why is W allowed to earn big speaking fees whereever he goes? I believe it’s Germany that’s indicted him in absentia of war crimes.
BTW
Why didn’t the rest of the Arab nations accept the Palestinians into their countries when the “Satan” Israel took their land in the original war? They weren’t allowed to enter so that’s the original reason they were stuck where they are now.
That is rubbish, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon took in countless Palestinians. Many are still in refugee camps because they refuse to give up hope of returning to their homes seized from them.
How the hell do you “put a nation on trial”?
You really do want the place to go away, don’t you?
Sorry — not going to happen. You can either deal with that, or you can go on propagandizing generation after generation of kids with Jew-hatred, and prevent them from joining the modern world. You guys have more Palestinian blood on your hands than you will ever understand.
That is a very narrow-minded statement. This actually has little to do with Jews versus Muslims, if anything at all. This is a territorial and human-rights issue.
And just how is it that you have reached the conclusion that these are “progressives”?
p.s., I’ve certainly seen much worse behavior by “teabaggers” whom you probably support.
Really? When/where? Stop the childish blogging. Go take a nap.
get rid of the progressives and extremists before its too late! lets exile them to…oh…lets see…iran and other terrorist sponsoring states!
this progressive condemns what happened and i am not going anywhere ok?
you guys are bankrupting the country with all your so call rights…
Yes, we only have room for one stinkin’ point of view in this “free” country. Burn the Constitution and the bill of “so called” rights while you’re at it!
Good for you Eric! I didn’t think that all “progressives” supported this kind of selective free speech.
These loud mouths are not progressives, get your political prejudices straight. They’re conservative religious nuts.
Saying they are conservative is about as stupid as saying they are progressive.
That is not freedom of speech. You’re right. Those that went there to interupt are immature and selfish. Cowards.
These students were not cowards, they were brave. You have to be brave to stand up to “His Excellency” and his oppressive “nation”.
That’s not brave to interrupt a speaker you disagree with. Its simply rude and anti-freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is a 2 way street both for yourself and for those you disagree with. It is not selective just for those you agree with!
Amen Bob!
As someone else has already mentioned: if we can bring back Adolf Hitler to deliver a speech at an American university, I would like to nominate you to label the people who protest against him as “cowards.”
AMEN MATTY!
America is a tolerant country.
However, we have free speech in the United States. Respect that while you are here as a guest and respect ALL OF OUR GUESTS!
If you don’t like it, you can take your diaperhead bassackward culture and go suck sand in the dessert with the the rest of the caveman culture in the middle east.
Winner: most racist comment yet.
Editor’s note: I deleted nbcrystal’s remarks. Please do not capitalize entire words and sentences. It is a form of shouting. This topic is hot enough as it is.
Gary, why did you not delete the post using the term “teabaggers”. Little did the public know the meaning of this specific term until the Tea Party Demonstrations began. It is a vile and derogatory term and should not be allowed in OCR posts.
Most rational comment yet.
I guess most are waiting for the 200,000 US sand suckers to leave Iraq first before they go back to their country. Israel is a criminal state and should be treated as such.
i think alex has smoked too much sand!! he doesnt appreciate the freedoms we have. go blog in some islam crountry about how crummy it is there and find out what happens to you!! GO ISRAEL!!!!
How do you know how crummy it is “there”? I even doubt that you ever left this country. Infact if you are an american there is a 40% chance you could not locate your own country on a map.
I wouldn’t be so proud that my country was built in the enslavement of blacks, the irradiation of the natives and the plundering of foriegn lands.
Shame on UC for bringing a representative of a chronic human rights violater to speak. Eventhough i disagree with what the students did i applaud their courage.
To everyone that seems outraged, if you were not outraged when Ahmadinjad came to speak and was introduced so rudly by his hosts and interrupted by the crowd than you are a hypocrite.
Winner, most honest comment.
I’ll top that with I don’t really care much for either group. Sure would be nice if they’d off each other so we could all sit back in peace.
Well, at least they all got arrested and hopefully that shows up on a background check when they go for jobs. However, when they apply for suicide bomber it will surely give them street cred.
How come this post is not moderated???? I am ashamed of people like you “Enough!” what kind of examples are creating???? maybe you should considering living in an isolated island in the middle of nowhere and respect all the guests you want, oppressors included of course.
Now all of sudden you have a problem with free speech.
that’s not free speech, its hate and racism which should not be tolerated.
It has become too common that at UCI, jews can be spat upon while the muslims demand every protection. It’s time to start kicking them out of the Country!
YES! There should be no tolerance for hate! Kick them out!
I disagree. You should hate what is wrong.
I agree! You should hate that horrible looking old, white lady who thought she was cool trying to flick the people off as they exited. How about the professor who is going to ‘fail’ everyone as he points his finger. What ever happened to a freedom of opinion??? Did we see any shoes fly???
i agree!!!
Don’t worry, Eagle. Trust me–they’ll be the first to go (home) when it hits the fan.
What have the Palestinians ever contributed to world culture? they are a backwards “state” supported by the UN. Half the population is unemployed. Why Israel puts up with them is beyond me.
cause being vp of the dwyer group is contributing to world culture? what have YOU done nick greville?
What a colossal fail. Since when is contributing to world culture a criteria for being allowed to own your own land. And they’re unemployed BECAUSE of israel you fool. Why the world puts up with Israel is beyond me.
They are a “backwards state” because racist Israelis refuse to allow *basic* humanitarian supplies to reach them. I’d like to see how long you would deal with that kind of inhumanity before you snapped.
They didn’t even have a state until Israel agreed to it.
Before Israel gained that territory defending itself against the Arab invaders, what did all the Arab nations do for the Palestinians? Not much. They left them in those horrible refugee camps for years.
Remember, the West bank and the Gaza strip were controlled by Arab nations before Israel got control. They didn’t set up a Palestinian state. Why not? Why blame Israel now?
Of course these students weren’t even born then and maybe don’t even realize that the Arab nations used to control that territory–not the Palestinians–and they did not give it to the Palestinians.
How about the Israelis who are constantly threatened by rockets from Gaza and suicide bombers?
Umm, Israel was given the power, the money, the military, EVERYTHING! Palestine was doing fine before they invaded. Do more research, please. Thanks.
PS. Half the population is unemployed thanks to your beloved Israelli gov’t.
Viva Palestine.
VIVA ISRAEL!!!
No, VIVA PALESTINE
only if US continues to give them a blank check….
Without US tax dollars, Israel amounts to nothing.
and on that note, US has only been in danger since the existence of Israel. We, Americans, get more terrorist attacks thanks to your bad neighbor behavior than we have ever had before
Amen Chuck! There is no Palestine .
Shalom Israel
Who, exactly, gave the Jews anything in 1948?
Bueller? Bueller?
Palestine was doing fine before they invaded? What are you talking about?
There wasn’t a Palestine, well there was a territory called Palestine by the British rulers.
But that was all the ancient homeland of the Jews.
If you knew anything about the occupation, you would know that the Palestinians are involved in what’s called entrapment. They are under military occupation and have no choice but to exist under the conditions that Israel allows. I don’t see where you come off saying that Israel “puts up with them” since the land belonged to Palestinians before the British Mandate. After somebody comes to your house, declares it theirs, kicks you to the curb and treats you like a second-class citizen in your own country, then you can come and make comments like that.
Not true. Try reading the Bible.
lol, Stacy, you remind of the Robitussin commercial! apparently when someone asks you a question, be it scientific or political, it seems that the bible has all the magical answers one would want! No thanks, I don’t read man-made books that are advertised as being divine. You don’t believe me? I can’t believe I am about to say it, but try reading the bible! LOL
Try forming your own opinion.
Wow-zer…..read the Bible for historical accuracy….as Grady from Sanford and Son would say….good goobly-woobly
The land belonged to the Ottoman Turks before the British Mandate. Before that, it belonged to the Seljuk Turks. That takes us back to the eleventh century. Before than, it belonged to the Byzantines, then the Romans, then the Jews, then the Greeks, then the Jews, then the Babylonians, and then the Jews again.
The Palestinians in the West Bank are actually settling down to a decent life, now that all the hotheads clustered in Gaza. Maybe Israel can make peace with the sensible Palis first, and deal with the Hamas lunatics later.
I’ve been scrolling the page reading these comments and am thoroughly disgusted. Yes, it can be seen as irrational for these university students to disrupt a political leader’s arrival at their school.
HOWEVER, if anyone actually RESEARCHED the reason for their protest and disapproval, and had even an ounce of compassion for human life, there would be no question as for why anyone was protesting.
To the commenter who declared that the Palestinian people are “backwards”? Your words utterly and completely revolt me. The Israeli government, keeping the Palestinian people under TOTAL OCCUPATION, does not allow any form of progressive technology to enter the territories. Medical equipment cannot even be transported in because of the Israeli’s staunch stance against virtually anything supporting the Palestinian people.
They are subjected to subhuman living conditions and treatment in every aspect of life, from attending school, to shopping for groceries, to visiting family, to receiving medical care of the simplest form, to making a trip to the local mosque to pray.
Nearly all of the population lives under the poverty line because the state of Israel removes all opportunity for attaining a job, through arresting men in the street simply because they feel like it, or forcibly closing down businesses, as well as instating curfews where NO ONE can be on the streets after a designated time, usually an irrationally-declared time. They cannot leave their villages and cities without being subjected to checkpoints and pure harassment by Israeli officers. And because of how long this has been a fact in the Palestinian territories, the two youngest generations living there don’t know of any other reality than this.
And to throw in a personal twist to this: my uncle lives in a small village near Jerusalem. At one point in time, decades ago, a trip to Ramallah would take less than 10 minutes. It now takes over two hours due to numerous checkpoints. So imagine attempting to drive to a hospital 3 cities away for medical care that is egregiously expensive simply because the patients are Palestinian. One of those patients? My cousin, less than four years old, and born with a heart defect, who needs frequent medical care at said hospital, as well as prescription medications that are either so expensive that they have put my uncle over his head in debt, or are not even available to them as Palestinians.
If anyone reading this has a single drop of compassion for human life, they understand why these students protested the arrival of the Israeli Prime Minister at the university. The first amendment allows the PM to speak freely, but it also gives students– and anyone else– the right to protest. The Israeli people deny the right to live freely to millions of civilians who have done nothing and are seen as less than human simply because they are Arab, and specifically Palestinian.
But let the guy speak! Then give a rebuttal.
I supported the Iranians on the corner at Barranca protesting the election and violence in their homeland and felt they should have a voice. Shouldn’t this ambassador be able to finish speaking, before people act like animals?
As I said, I do agree that it was somewhat irrational to protest in that manner. However, I in fact know personally a few of those who spoke out and were escorted out, as well as more who walked out at the end. Believe me when I say that anything he could possibly say, we have heard time and time again.
Oh, and to anyone who watched the video: let the man who held his middle finger at the protesters know that at least the students were nonviolent and did not threaten the ambassador with vulgarity.
The speaker in this case is an animal. Do we bus criminals from local jails to come speak at universities? As I said in a response in a comment earlier, this man played a role in the killing of thousands of innocent civilians. If you take part in Israel’s war crimes, you are a war criminal and should be in jail, not speaking at a University.
Amen, Eagle. The speech should be allowed, without disruption. Then if the protesters want to bring in their own guy to speak, HE should be allowed to speak without disruption. Plenty of people go to this type of speech with an open mind, wanting to hear both sides – but if we encounter protesters disrupting the speaker’s right to speak, it helps us make up our minds — and NOT in favor of the protesters. Let everyone speak — do your protesting outside the venue! Then maybe we all can actually learn something!
Gaza has not been occupied for 5 years; instead Gaza has been ruled by Hamas, a regime so extreme that Egypt is not willing to open its border to them either. Hamas of course is the anti-semitic group (their charter postiviely cites to the notrious Protocols of the Elders of Zion) calling for the utter destruction of Israel (like many posters here who are then troubled by Israeli self-defense) that has engaged in various attacks aimed at civilians over the years (i.e. terrorism).
Meanwhile referring to Palestine as having been just fine before Israel is equally ridiculous. The land today supports more then 10X the people it did with infrastructure projects that the Palestinians would never have done. Don’t believer that? Look at Syria, Jordon, Egypt, Lebanon. Compare their infrastructure to Israel’s (built largely even before US finding, which came after Camp David).
Actually lets look at them a minute longer. Lebanon will not allow people whose families have lived in their country for 62 years to have the right to vote or the right to own land if their family came from Palestine, even 3 generations ago. Jordon has a Palestinian majority but is under a monarchy so they too are disenfranchised. And the Palestinian Authority, with its treaty with Israel, has the death sentence for selling land to Jews (a penalty it has implemented more then once) . So lets all focus on Israel, the only nation in the area actually threatened with annihilation (unless one wants to talk about Lebanon which is once again under Syrian domination and is a proxy-state) .
I read about 2 sentences and I already know this whole excerpt from “get real” is drivel. Anybody that is aware of current events has heard this slander before and knows what’s really happening. Read the comment from “Amal Free Palestine Ali” and you will know what it’s really like to live in Palestine. Palestinians are just trying to live normal lives like anybody else and they can’t because Israelis won’t let them. Hey “get real”, go live like a Palestinian for a few years and then tell me your objective opinion.
Umm Yeah, I’ve been to those countries and through Israel. The infrastructure looks the same, well-developed and civilized. Like I said, maybe if Palestine was supplied with HALF the money Israel is yearly supplied with, they would have decent infrastructure.
At least Syria, Jordan, and Egypt and Lebanon built their infrastructure without constant need from any super power.
That’s like saying the wealthy mother with the nanny, a maid, a personal chef, and a personal tutor for her kids has better control than the mother who has to cook, clean, raise and tutor her children. Israel had everything given to them, if they didn’t develop well like they have with all these freebie resources , they’d be idiots.
And you honestly don’t think Hamaas has anything to do with the continuing suffering of the Palestinian people?
Hamas’ actions aren’t the cause of the Palestinians’ plight. The occupation of Palestinians began in 1948, long before Hamas (a political party, by the way, not an organization bent on destruction) was even conceived. 1948 is when injustice in Palestine began, not when Hamas became a notable organization.
Every word of that man’s writing is false, including “and” and “the”.
Amal, you are overlooking the fact that those territories were controlled by Arab nations for years–from 1948 or 49 until about 1967 when Israel gained control of them in one of the wars it fought for its very existence.
These students weren’t even born then, but after the partition of Palestine when Israel became a nation, the surrounding Arab nations controlled the West Bank and Gaza strip. They were the ones who kept the Palestinian refugees in the refugee camps for all those years.
And during that time Israel was attacked at least twice or maybe 3 times by the surrounding nations and that doesn’t even count that they were attacked right when independence was declared.
So yeah, things are rough for the Palestinians but if they truly desired to live in peace and stop threatening the very existence of Israel, all those restrictions would likely be done away with.
Unfortunately those who do live peacefully get caught in the middle.
Even if what you are saying is true, and let’s even assume that you can make a solid arguement about the “Backward” state and no contribution to world culture…. what do you suggest Isreal do? Kill them?
They are getting what they deserve because they are poor? Come on man that’s not even a humane arguement.
And as a matter of fact, just the very position that they are in politically, socially, and economnicallly, contribute to world culture as well as to the monumental eras of our history.
Comments like this are simply hateful and are doing nothing to propogate this discussion intelligibly.
what a bunch of knobs name and shame these “protesters”
I agree it was rude to interupt the speaker but to protest is a right and in this case a moral obligation. Israel continues to force a military occupation on the Palestinians. “Let freedom ring”, the catchy opening tune for Hannity. apparantly does not apply to the Palestinians. Statehood for the Palestinians is the only solution for peace and must happen now. George Washington and our founding fathers fought against tyranny and oppression and we now celebrate our freedom and independence on July 4. The Palestinians deserve the right to celebrate their independence day also. Only then can foreign terrorists have their moral highground taken away.
So David, are you suggesting that foreign terrorists currently have “moral high ground” and should continue their terrorism, including the one being threatened on America for this very week? There is currently one Jewish nation, Israel. There are 25 +/- Arab nations where the Palestinians would be welcome. Jews or Christians, for that matter, would not be made welcome in these Arabic nations.
There SHOULDN’T be an exclusively JEWISH state, the same way there isn’t an EXCLUSIVELY Muslim, Christian, or Hindu state in existance.
The ONLY solution is to have the Muslim and Christian Palestinians and Jewish Israelis living in the same state like they were before, in harmony and prosperity. This idea of creating a solely Jewish state is ridiculous.
Um, Ashes…you do know that the majority of nations on this planet have an official state religion…which Israel does not (ironic, isn’t it). Most of Europe consider themselves to be Christian nations.
Furthermore, you are not allowed to immigrate to Saudi Arabia unless you are a Muslim. Kinda bursts your argument right there, doesn’t it…
Hehe. Ashes you make me giggle.
Saudi Arabia – 100% Muslim
Iraq – 97% Muslim
Iran – 98% Muslim
UAE – 96% Muslim
Syria – 90% Muslim
I guess you are right.. well… only Saudi Arabia is exclusively Muslim, but besides that there are no exclusively Muslim countries.
Israel is not a solely Jewish state… here is the break-down..
Jewish 76.4%
Muslim 16%
Arab Christians 1.7%
other Christian 0.4%
Druze 1.6%
unspecified 3.9%
(cia.gov world factbook)
ummm Courtney, In the religion of Islam, you are COMMANDED to tolerate other religious practices. Therefore, there are so many churches in Saudi Arabia, which are, in fact, protected by police. Where the hell did you get the idea that you have to be Muslim to live there?? Some rumor probably. Do some research please.
Churches in Saudi Arabia? You seriously have to be kidding. None allowed. I had friends who lived there years ago and they were very restricted if they traveled outside the American compound.
I think that I heard that they don’t even allow a church for expatriates.
Sure other Muslim countries have churches in them but in many there is persecution of Christians. I don’t think there are too many Jews left in the Arab countries, although I suppose there are still some.
Umm, Palestine has Muslims and Christians, and what exactly does Palestine have to do with other Arab nations? We’re talking about Israelis kicking Palestinians out of their land. Palestinians are Christian, Muslim and even Jewish, and they have nothing to do with any other Arab nations. We are discussing the Palestinians not the Arabs
So by your logic, because the Arab states aren’t welcoming to non-Muslims, Israel has the right to be non-welcoming towards non-Jews? I thought Israel was a “civilized” western state that was accepting of other religions and cultures. Give me a moral argument as to 1. why the Palestinians shouldn’t be allowed their self-determination and 2. why Israel has the right to have racist policies.
1. The Palestinians should be allowed their self-determination, and will be, the moment Israel has reason to believe said self-determination won’t be exercised to go back to murdering Jews. Jews have some kind of a hangup about that stuff.
2. What racist policies?
Julia, do you know that there are non-Jews who are citizens of Israel and even in parliament?
Start packing and move your butt to the middle east and you can be part of Hammas!
You are a spoiled jackass american citizen who takes everything for granted.
A university should have intelligent discussion and debate. To take away the right of one individual and give it to another is hypocrisy!
“A university should have intelligent discussion and debate. To take away the right of one individual and give it to another is hypocrisy!”
WOW! and you are supposedly not hypocritical??? I can smell your hypocrisy from Mars!!! Get a life and get educated.
D
David,
Buy yourslef a clue. If Israel decided to give the “Palestinians” a state tomorrow, they would turn it into a rocket and mortar base.
They have repeatedly stated time and again “From the river to the sea.” It’s not land they want. It’s an absence of a Israel they seek.
Take it from me. I believed them for 40 plus years and I’m close to 50 now.
It’s sad to watch cynics turn otherwise intelligent people into windsocks of propaganda.
Just ask them next time you have a chance.
“Do you support the right of Jews to live and be secure in their own state, the ONE and ONLY Jewish state in the world ?”
When they dance around that, then ask “Do you support Hizbollah and Hamas whose founding charters incite genocidal violence against Jews?”
And when they dance around that or respond that the issue is too complicated, then ask “Do you agree with Nasrallah, the head of Hizbullah, who said we hope the Jews will gather in Israel so we won’t have to hunt them down all over the world?”
At that point, even the most obtuse should get it because to the shock of many, you still won’t get an emphatic denial which of course means they agree with Nasrallah.
Just ask them.
@ So Cal Mike: You are spot on, Sir!
“Here it is that the poison is incubated. Here it is that the extremist is able to confuse in the mind of a frighteningly large number of people the case for a Palestinian state and the destruction of Israel, and to translate this moreover into a battle between East and West, Muslim, Jew and Christian.
May this never compromise the security of the state of Israel.”
British Prime Minister Tony Blair
Speech to the U.S. Congress on Thursday, July 17, 2003.
Well said, So Cal Mike!
As a Palestinian, I will allow zionists to live in my country, Palestine, as first class citizens, something they have not given me the right to in my own land which they claim to be theirs. So this answers your first question. Sure they can stay in Palestine but it will be a Palestinian government since that land is all Palestinian. Secondly, I do not support terrorism. Thirdly, I don’t agree with Nasrallah, as I said, zionists can stay in Palestine under a Palestinian government and attempt to purchase a home from a rightful Palestinian owner, not kill him and take it like they did in 48 and 67. If you can buy your own land in palestine from the rightful owner, you are more than welcome to live in it! Just don’t kill anyone please
Israel has to put up with then only because they are Arabs unwanted by the Arab world. Arab world keeps them in refugee status and in camps for six decades to make shure that there is no peace for Jews and Israel and in the pretext of its destruction. It was actually many more Jewish refugees who were kicked out from the Arab countries and were resettled in Israel( about 850.000) and it was about 719.000 of Arabs who fled during the 1948 Israeli- Arab war. These 719.000 of Arabs are now 5.2 millions, supported by UN. Majority of them were born in other Arab nations, but Arabs make shure they are not integrated in their societies and retain their refugee status for generations. This is the biggest hypocricy in history, but housands of workers are employed by UN to keep these Arab refugees on “World Wellfare” . The army of UN workers will loose their jobs, if this hypocricy will end one day… O, yes and one more interesting thing, if you look at the pictures from 1930-1937 who was immigrating to British Mandate of Palestine? – the long lines of Arabs who clime that they are the natives. What a joke, most of them immigrated any way…
Hey Inna, I’m a Texan. That’s all i’ve ever known. That’s MY home. What if the gov’t gave Texas back to the Mexicans because it’s ‘rightfully’ Mexico? I wouldn’t wanna live in Oklahoma, Louisiana, or New Mexico, I would want to live in TEXAS, MY HOME! Have some sympathy, please. Make sense of it in your head for just a second.
You expect us all to believe that a country can be stolen from a nation that had existed just like that? AND not expect any retaliation? Get real. Would you give up your house for a hobo family? And let them take over? Probably not.
Mr. Percak I want to tell you I admire your civilized post. However, I must respectfully disagree with you entirely. Take a look at a map of the Middle East. All those huge Arabic states, none of them with any room or desire to resettle the Palestinians. Israel, a bare speck on the map, has taken in and resettled numerous Jewish refugees. The Palestinians chose to leave the area now known as Israel because the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem told them they would be back home in no time after the Jews were driven into the sea. Jews have no other place that can serve as a refuge. The Palestinians do have other places. Please do some studying of the situation and realize there are two sides to the issue and the Jewish one is at least worth considering. Thank you.
Why can’t the Jews and Palestinians live together like they did before? Why is it necessary to create a Jewish state?
“Why can’t the Jews and Palestinians live together like they did before?”
Before when?
Learn about the history of Jewish people to understand why they need a country on their own and live there as a majority.
Because the only time the Palestinians were able to refrain from killing the Jews was when they lived under foreign control — first the Turks, and then the Brits. The Turks got thrown out in World War I, and then in 1948 the Brits got sick of running things and cleared out.
RB, before Zionism. There are still Palestinian Jews.
The arguments about resettling Palestinians to other Arab countries is kind of strange. If someone came and kicked me out of my house in Orange County because the ancestors of the inhabitants from thousands of years ago believed God gave it to them, I would find cold comfort in the excuse that America is a big country so why don’t I move to Kentucky or something. The stuff about the Grand Mufti is also pretty weird. If my neighbor moved out because a voice in his head said so, I don’t think that gives me the legal right to my neighbor’s home. The Jews took that land and kept it because they believe they have a right to it and they had the organization, the weapons and support of mighty friends. It’s the same way land has been taken since the dawn of human history.
The Jews in 1948 didn’t have any “mighty friends.” The Brits were on the Arabs’ side. The Arabs got beat fair and square. Like it or not, fifty years is a lot of water under the bridge. We don’t care any more that Chile took a big chunk of Peru back in the 1870s or 80s (see — we care so little that I can’t remember the right decade, and *you* don’t have any idea what I’m talking about whatsoever). And I don’t particularly care any more about how the Palestinian Mandate got sorted out in 1948. Clearly the Jews and Arabs were going to divide the place up between them somehow. The lines got drawn, and the sooner everybody decides to put up with it and move on, the better for everybody involved.
Statehood for Palestinians is the only solution for peace — but realistically, Israel is not going to create a state that will immediately go to war against it.
Anyway, which Palestinians are going to run the state? Hamas or the PA? Hamas has Gaza, and the PA has the West Bank. *Those* two sides can’t even stop fighting. How in the world do you propose to get Hamas to stop being dedicated to destroying Israel altogether?
Like President Obama said, this is hard.
Those that tried to “speak out” and “ruin” the Ambassador’s speech are the most ignorant human beings that live among all of us. Not only is it anti-Israel bashing, but I feel that it is also anti-American to not let this happen, and at a college, wow shame on the protesters! How disrespectful! G-d Bless Israel!
Oh, so now being against israel is anti-American?
Oy vey…
Being against Israel for the standard leftist reason (i.e., the reflex to always side against the party nearest in spirit to Western civilization) has aspects of anti-Americanism, yes.
The same people who side with Hamas read Howard Zinn. “Nuff said.
Actually it was anti-American to not respect the Ambassador’s right to free speech.
Free speech is not only your right–it is the right of those you disagree with.
America =/= Israel
That’s the one thing you’ve got to get out of your limited brain.
Actually, Lucifer’s Flowers, WE are Israel.
Of all the countries in this highly backwards dysfunctional part of the world, the one country that most resembles the USA is Israel.
We share a common heritage, a common base of values, a common holy book (although you might disagree on this point and many others), very similiar mind sets, common enemies and a common interest in opposing jihadis who insist the world will be a better place when “infidels” are put to the sword or forced to convert to Islam.
We also have in common a free society that elects its own governments. That’s just for starters.
We love life. So do the Jews of Israel while the jihadis are proud to proclaim they love death.
You are trapped in the Matrix. You fool.
Negative.
This might shock you but WE are the United States of America.
If you are more loyal to Israel than to our Republic, than maybe you can apply for dual American-Israeli citizenship like Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, and all the other Zionist leeches that place Israeli interests before American ones. Better yet, go live out your dream of a Jewish state in Tel Aviv and leave us alone.
Israel has spent a lot of time mimicking the prosperity of the United States, but America and Israel, have little in common. You don’t share a common heritage or a common base of values. America has more in common with Britain and as for values, no, in America, everyone’s equal; In Israel, Jews are above all, included Christians. You have more in common with South Africa’s Apartheid. Your “Common enemies” weren’t America’s enemies until you came around.
A “Free Society”? Sure, you’re free, as long as you’re not Muslim or Christian.
You may love life, but in the case of Israel, it’s at the expense of someone else.
Love Death? When you take all their land, their water and cast them into poverty, what life to they have?
to socal mike
your belief of what the term “jihadis” means makes you seem pathetically ignorant and im sure you are because if you werent pathetically ignorant you would know that the word jihadi directly transated means one who struggles which pertains to all human beings because everyone strugglesand the islamic term of jihadi is one who struggles between himself and his desires, and or one who struggles between himself and satan.
“uranidiot,” yes, that’s one way some liberal Muslims define “jihad.” Believe me — it’s not the only way. It’s not even the most accurate way, if you look at the relevant hadiths.
I’m thrilled that some Muslims want to interpret the concept of jihad in a more humane way, but nobody should be under any delusion that it didn’t originally mean actual physical warfare.
too bad Israel is the image of pre-civil rights America, practicing Jim Crow against the Palestinians. Even Desmond Tutu, who knows about apartheid calls Israel worse than South African apartheid.
Mom voice, One thing that I have learned studying the Arab-Israeli conflict is this: God has nothing to do with any of it.
R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Teach your children that.
G-D BLESS ISRAEL
AND
G-D BLESS AMERICA
If you do not like us
don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
There I just exercised my freedom of speech without disrupting you.
:0)
Teach yourself not to hate Palestinian children.
Glad to hear something was dine for the inappropriate method of vocaling a differing opinion. Both sides should have a say in the matter but disruption only brings shame on the one disrupting and does nothing helpful.
voting is the LEAST one can do for their democracy (actually, republic)…kudos to all who “take it to the streets”
I completely agree.
The countries in the middle east don’t want to have anything to do with the Palestinians. They are a corrupt, muderous sub culture incapable of civic or moral decency without any clue how to create a sustaining society where anarchy is the rule and dissent is met with murder and terrorism.
We should just nuke the area and save the world the agravation.
Pitiful, if there was a way to nuke the Palestinians without destroying the entire region, it would have been done a long time ago. There are lots of people just like you who would love to push the button. We have a unique perspective on this as Americans. No one knows more about actually nuking people than we do.
Man, you can really respect young people with big mouths, can’t ya?
These students are brave and were illustrating free speech in standing up to this murderer. Those of you commenting on here without any background on this man (slaughterer, actually) should be ashamed. These students should be commended!
No Jen, brave would be doing what they did in Saudi Arabia, Iran, or any other Mideast country where they would have been imprisoned and tortured. These boys were simply being childish and rude.
So you’ve never stood up and faced arrest for what you believe in?
Tom, you’ve spent so much time in front of the TV that you completely forgot that you have rights! Seriously, if you don’t like having rights, then leave those of us who are patriotic practice our liberties. Great job UCI students for standing up for what you believe in, I would’ve most certainly been afraid to stand up and voice my belief, you are brave!.
Dwight, it is a sad day when people who disrupt the free speech of others are hailed as just exercising their free speech.
No, they were denying the free speech of another person!
Free speech would have been protesting all they wanted, but not denying him free speech as they did.
Tom, I am sure people said that Martin Luther King and Gandhi were childish and rude when they stood up for their own rights too. Look at how their “childish” non violent demonstrations changed the world today. These people (we dont know exactly who they are-students, middle east, etc) expressed how they felt about someone that is injust and they got their points across.
(Plus, in my opinion the old man flicking his finger and the blonde woman could also be called childish… you didnt point that out…)
I must have missed the bit about Martin Luther King shouting down his opponents.
Point taken Gary,
Jen, where are your facts to back up calling this man a murderer?
And by the way, you are have the right to blog just as Ambassador Oren had the right to speak today.
These students were not brave , brave means courageous. These students were disruptive while knowing they had no real threat unless they kept up their rude behavior. They brought on their arrest themselves. And I am sure they are all home tonight. Not in prison.
The definition of brave are the military personnel and their families who’s sacrifices have keep us free and protected our(your) rights.
These Muslim extremists spew hate and murder, not just to Jew’s but to Christians as well.
I do know what I am talking about. I have friends who had to leave their Arab Country because they read the Bible? Why?
Because these extremist believe their way is the only way.
Jen, Why are these students in our country if they hate our freedoms, religions and way of life?
nbcrystal… where are your facts to back up what you said here?
True colors:
What facts? Maybe you should do your homework. Iran feeds gaza.need I say more.
The world knows the truth, the Muslim world is morally bankrupt. One cannot deny the oppressive methods used by Israel, but where are the voices of these Muslim “students”, where is their moral outrage about the repressive regimes, run by and controlled by Muslims, responsible for outward oppression of women, and the killing of Muslims by Muslims. I am not here to defend Israel, but the problem is not Israel, the problem is the Arab world, and until these hateful and oppressive regimes, where wealth and power is concentrated in a few and the masses are maintained in a state that only be described as medieval; until these regimes are overthrown by Muslims, the voices of indignation towards Israel and the West will continue to ring hollow.
Why do we let people like these students into our country?
Agree with Oren or not, what they did was racist.
Israel, and I am not an Israeli or a Jew or a Christian, is fighting for survival amidst a sea fo evil.
Islam has as part of its doctrine whcih plainly states that Jews must all be killed.
We all see what happens.
Israel gives the Palestinians a place to call their own, then they use it to launch terrorist attacks against Jews.
If I were the Jews, I’d nuke Palestine and be done with it.
It is the only way this war against the west will end, when we nuke them and eradicate their hate speech from the face of the earth.
I am personally insutled that a so called “religion” which says its okay to kill MY children if they won’t accept Islam, is permitted to exist in a nation of free people.
We gather together to protect ourselves from evil like this.
Why aren’t we criminalizing Islam the same way as we did with the KKK or the Euro’s do with the Nazi’s?
Hate speech is hate speech whether it was written last night or 1500 years ago.
Islam is a social cancer and these “students” are a perfect example of what a tumor looks like.
We need to use instances like this to end the legitimacy of Islam as a religion and call it for what it is, a violent racist gang of zealotry.
Just like the mushrooms who sit around in the ghetto and do nothing while street gangs take over, Muslims who do not speak out aggressively against the evil purported in the name of Islam are condoning the actions of these thugs and are supporting their argument that violence is an acceptable path in their religion.
Buk, I think you have the strategic picture a little backward. There is no combination of Arab states that can cope with Israel militarily. The IDF is one of the best weapons ever forged. Plus, should the Israeli Army face defeat in the field, there is no question American power would be used to bolster our ally. Even in our current over-extended and weakened condition, that support would be quite effective. A lot of Americans feel the same way you do about Muslims even though your comments show an appalling ignorance about Islam. There are a lot of Americans, too, that see corruption, injustice and atrocity from both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict. I am getting to the point where I don’t think our country should be involved with either one of these groups. They shouldn’t get a dime of American support until a two-state solution is reached.
i am a muslim and have been my whole life. i have lived in pakistan were some of my bestfirends were jewish and christian and it was ok there was never any hateful language, i came here and all i ever hear behind my back is towelhead and terrorist and go back to your country so i ask are the arabs really the hateful ones? in all my years following islam i have never heard it is ok to “kill your children if they arent muslim” and if you actually took time to gain some understanding of us you would learn that islam is never and never will be a violent religion, we average joe American, Arabic, Chinese, etc muslims have never supported those extremists and never will,
P.S. we muslims consider jews and christians like our brothers because they are “the people of the book” and they believe in the scriptures of Moses and Jesus (pbuh) who in islam are Prophets of god so allt he information you have given out is totally biased BS
Uraidiot.(sic)
You are correct. It is not about religion. I am sure most Muslims, are great people. It is about politics. It is about corruption. The worst enemy of the Palestinians is their Leadership. They took millions of dollars of American aid and used it for weapons while their people suffered. Instead of building infrastructure and building an economy so people can get jobs, they build rockets to fire at Israeli villages. Instead of accepting Israel’s offer for 97% of what they were asking for in 2000, Arafat begins the second infatadah.
The Iranians are trying to change their corrupt government, We must help them. The Palestinians need to adopt leaders that are not terrorists.
But at least the Israeli Palestinians are free to speak their minds and run for the Israeli Parliament and plead their cases in front of the Israeli Supreme Court (and often win). Something no other arab was able to do in their own country.
Other than their reaction to being attached from Palestinian Territories, the worst I’ve head the Israeli Government accused of is the building of settlement in occupied territories. The Palestinian leaders figure they will own the land eventually and they don’t want any Israelis on the land. In any other context, what the Palestinian leaders want to do would be called ethnic cleansing.
The Quran says kill non-islam believers. and If you don’t know that, then read it well and ask someone else about that.
These middle eastern students abuse the privilege of hospitality provided to them by the United States. By demonstrating such intolerance toward who they perceive as representing a country whose existence they oppose, illustrates their own narrow bias and nonacceptance of tolerance as a policy of the United States.
These foreign students insult the United States and demonstrate their intolerant and radical views. They should be removed from UCI and from this country. It is radicals and intolerant middle easterners such as these that are opposed to the United States but partake of its educational opportunities. Expel these students and deport them!
Did I miss the part where these students are foreign students?
ocavatar: Americans always declare for free speech – until someone says or does something Americans don’t like. I saw a lot of conservatives who had no problem with shouting down healthcare reformers. Anti-war protestors did a lot of the same type of stuff to conservatives. Either this kind of disruption is OK or it’s not. We need to make up our minds because this hypocrisy thing is just ridiculous.
Shame on the disrupters! If you want to protest, protest outside and allow those who want to hear the speaker hear the presentation. I would be surprised if these protestors are progressives or conservative Americans. However, I have seen invited conservative speakers shouted down by university students. I have also seen things thrown at the speakers.
Universities should be places for the free sharing of ideas and the exercise of our first amendment right, not the shouting down of someone with whom you disagree.
This was not a disruption. This was an example of students standing up to a representative of a murderous nation. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with these students being vocal in opposition to oppression!
Leslie,
Where are your facts to back your comments calling this man a murderer?Are you sure your name is not A’la?
Still their behavior was better than flying a jet right into the student center or bombing the dorms which are sort of like barracks.
Or running over an American peace keeper with a bulldozer
Oh G-d! How outrageous!
That American girl was run over by a freedom-loving, God-chosen Israeli bulldozer because she deserved it. She dared to criticize the Jewish state of Israel for crying out loud!
Wow.
did this comment really just happen?
matty, i hope to god you were being sarcastic…
oh lord! you must have no heart or blood in your veins.
And i’m pretty sure you don’t have a daughter either….
because if you did, you would never wish such a terrible thing on anyone else’s daughter.
Sometimes I wonder how you can be so proud of your government and they’re killings?? and then have the nerve to go criticize others. Please look at your own flaws before trying to deface others.
Instead of using their voice to speak out against Israel the Muslim group should be speaking out against Muslim extremists and terrorists. The only message they are projecting is one of intolerance and alienating themselves further from an accepting country who is becoming less tolerant of hate.
If Hitler was allowed to speak in this country, do you think the Jews would be disruptive?
Ahmadinejad (the modern Hitler) did speak at columbia without interruptions.
… He said Hitler, not Ahmadinejad. You’re not clever, sorry.
Actually I found it to be an apt and well timed reference.
HaHa just wait till Bush comes to OC.
Everything the protesters yelled was true. Israel is a Zionist nation. It’s a Jewish state.
Secondly, Oren isn’t a slaughterer. He’s not really a murderer. in ‘82 his Para squad was ambushed and almost everyone was killed.
However, he does represent an oppressive nation. Mexicans In TJ live better than Palestinians do.
Because they live in Santa Ana.
Wow. There is a comedian in the room.
I think we need to see if these disruptive characters are Al Queda.
And that’s thinking like a typical American! Good job.
Yes ashes, when hate spewing murderers kill over 3,000 innocent people becuse of extremist views you bet these “students” will be checked and should be check.
We have to do all that we can to protect the innocent and stop the violence.
Ashes, did you forget about 911 already, We didn’t.
right and and the 1400 innocent men, women, and children tthe isrealis killed last year doesnt make them hat spewing murderers right? not to mention the innocent women and children kill everyday. i cant believe how ignorant half of these comments are.
Have you forgotten about the Gaza Initiative last year? I bet you have. We need to stop the violence, I agree. This man advocates it as an ambassador, he deserves no respect.
And your comment is pure prejudice. How would you know that some of these students had relatives who worked in the towers and mourn for them and hate the terrorists who committed this crime? You don’t know. This is about Palestine and freedom from an extremely oppressive state. These students did nothing violent, it was planned out well and they are willing to suffer the consequences, that’s how strongly they feel about their cause.
Muslims and Islam have no place in the United States of America.
I agree!!!!
Amazed that these two comments make it past a moderator & my earlier one did not.
This is called hate speech & is anathema to everything the US is “supposed” to stand for.
It should not be allowed.
Umm we pay taxes, we were born here, and we have the freedom to practice what we want.
And you have a place in the states because….??
That is the most anti American statement I’ve seen in a while. You make me blush, that you and I both get to call ourselves Americans.
What has no place in America is hateful, bigoted comments like yours.
Above comment was directed at Crazyhorse and I meant to say “UN” American, not ANTI American.
Wake up fellas! This is America. Israel is one of our greatest allies.
If you don’t like it, wtf are you here for? A terror cell perhaps?
@ OC Taxpayer – “Israel is one of our greatest allies.”
Ask survivors of the USS Liberty and see how they feel.
OC Taxpayer: I agree we are Israel’s greatest ally but it’s a one-sided relationship. The record certainly shows that.
Hey what do you expect from these people? Actually I’m surprised all they did was yell.
A few quick comments:
What the MSA did was just plain disrespectful. UCI is notorious throughout the UC system as being the most anti-semetic campus. They regularly host inflammatory speakers- one in particular who advocated blatant racism against Jews (not Israelis). When other students protest at these events, they are escorted out of the room. Should they choose to stay and question the speaker about the validity of their propaganda, the questions are often filtered, or changed to suit the needs/ agenda of the speaker.
However, this is America, and we do have free speech. If a group of ignorant college kids, who clearly suffer, living on the tough streets of Irvine, wish to express their hate, then that is LEGAL AND THEIR RIGHT. But, it is a two way street. The Pro-Israeli factions have a right to preach their ideas, even if it some find it offensive. To start a screaming match in the middle of an academic event is not only childish, but it hurts their credibility as a thoughtful organization. The bottom line, though is that freezing speech on a college campus- regardless of the type of speech, is simply anti-American.
Lastly- lets no confuse progressive politics with anti-Israeli sentiment. They are two entirely different sets of ideologies. Most radical Muslims are not progressive as a matter of fact- they tend not to support many of the key progressive issues such as abortion, gay marriage, and a stronger welfare system.
DING! DING! DING! Ladies and gents, we have a WINNER!
@Troglodyte said “UCI is notorious throughout the UC system as being the most anti-semetic campus”
It was only a matter of time before the anti-semite card was used. I’m surprised it took more than an hour! For SHAME Bubby….
Im shocked WW3 doesnt break out at the grocery store on culver and the 405. jews and muslims shopping at the same store.
war criminals don’t deserve the respect and right to preach their ideas… and that’s what these students believe. legally they do have the right, but sometimes speaking out/fighting against injustice must be done illegaly.
** the students that spoke out are nowhere near ignorant, they know the history behind the occupation and have their own personal experiences.
Bode! What occupation you are talking about? Gaza was etnically cleansed from all of the Jews in 2005 by Israeli government, no Jew lives in Gaza. Are you talking about Israeli operation Cast Lead in 2008-2009? This Israeli operation was a responce to years of ongoing provacations by Islamist Hamas thugs, who indiscriminately bombarded Israeli civillians in the neighboring towns with rockets for 8 years. Do you know any other sovereign country who would wait 8 years to respond to ongoing terror from the enemy state? War is ugly, peace is a better choice…
The anti-semitic honor has been awarded to UCI for more than the past 5 years. It’s not a new title that troglodyte bestowed upon UCI. Do some research and stop asking your Imam for all your opinions and spitting out the same rhetoric instead of thinking for yourself.
Religious nut jobs are destroying this country, this hemisphere, and the entire world. We fear global warming will destroy us? HA! It will be religious extremists. Mark my words. Iran will build a nuclear weapon, fire it on Israel, yell something religious as they are doing it, US will get involved (already spent from Iraq and Afghanistan), and the rest of the world will follow. All because somebody thinks their big ol’ god is better than your measly god.
Yes you are right troglodyte! But as an American Woman that is allowed to drive a car, vote, and enjoy freedom and democracy, I am sickened by the ignorance of so many people! It doesn’t matter whether you are religious or not, democracy is what all of us should value, and appreciate. Let the terrorists and others protest, yes, but in a way that should not disrespect the college or speaker. That is why I felt the protesters were “Anti-American”. What are parents teaching their kids? We as American citizens need to stick together, especially since we don’t know what is going to happen in our future. Don’t let these extreme ignorant uniformed childish idiots divide us. We need Israel! To all you so called “protestors” I say do it outside, and organize your own anti-whatever speaker.
We are not a true democracy. We are a republic. Elect the wrong officials and you get a big mess.
INNA: I’m talking about the occupation in which created Israel in the first place. I’m talking about the occupation in which my family was kicked out of Palestine. I’m talking about the occupation in which thousands of Muslims were either killed or kicked out of their homes in order to make room for a Zionist state. I have over 10 generations of fathers that grew up in what you now you call Israel. I am pure Palestinian blood, what gives Jewish people the right to migrate from Europe and claim the land which belongs to us.
That land which you call Israel belonged to the Palestinians. They have every right to fight back for their land, no matter how many countries recognize the illegitimate state of Israel. Many countries only recognize it out of fear of weakening relations with two of the most powerful nations on the planet.
Hamas did not provoke anything. There actions are all in response to numerous things, and I’ll only name some of them. 1) The loss of their land. 2) Their lack of rights 3) The blockade and wall which imprisons them. 4) Israel prevents food, aid, electricity, etc. from entering Gaza. 5) Operation Cast Lead was initiated in response to Qasam rockets fired from Hamas, WHICH WERE IN RESPONSE to the blockade that Israel refused to remove even though a truce and ceasefire were made. What is one of the most densely populated places on the planet was left without adequate supplies necessary for human life. Israel continued to enter Gaza and killed several Hamas members who were inactive during the truce. CNN and many others proved that the ceasefire was broken by Israel. Do some research, please. It saves people of ignorance.
Bode, my friend ! There was No Occupation! Israel was established by UN on 20% of the British Mandate of Palestine, the rest went to Jordan, which is an Arab country, who does not want you. You are a child of Arab refugees who used to live on the land which became Israel. There was war after war when Arabs invaded and tried to crush newly established Israel and they lost. Wars are messy, innocent people die or are displaced by the war, becoming refugees. Jews who lived in Arab countries for thousands of years became refugees. Some Arabs(18% of Israeli population) never left Israel and don’t want to leave. Israeli Arabs have one of the highest standards of living in comparison to other ME countries. Israel is not perfect in the treatment of Arabs, but they site with Israel’s enemies and no sovereighn country will permit that. While Israel is a multicultural state, it was established as a Jewish State and it will always retain its Jewish character. I’m for equal rights for every Israeli citizen, but the qustion of Arab refugees(Palestinians) will have to be solved by Arab nations who started and lost numerous wars and left their brothers behind and shamelessly use Palestinians for their own agenda, which is destruction of Israel.
Isn’t ambassador lucky that he only got heckled rather than burnt with white phosphorous or decapitated by an Israeli missile. 1400 Palestinians including 300 children were silenced forever last year. Being silence for one minute by a heckler is nothing in comparison.
Indeed. He should go be grateful, that no one is building a concrete wall around his house and after a session of hecklers he will go back and sleep in his mansion paid for by our tax money.
How much does Israel get from US taxpayers, was it 20 billion or did we give them a raise during our economic recession up to 30 billion, isn’t now?
Israel is the #1 recipient of American foreign aid…more than all of Africa combined! They also have one of the largest hidden nuclear weapons fleet.
makes you wonder why they’re raising my tuition here in the states and many of my peers can’t afford to go to school because of our failing economy….?
Did all 300 of those children have bombs strapped to them? Or were some of them just carrying stones?
I agree, but where is your outrage about the more than 600 muslims killed and over 1500 critically injured just in Jan 2010–killed and injured by Muslims—-where is the outrage about the oppression of women. The Palestinian issue is a diversion from the real problem-oppressive regimes within the Arab world and takeover by radical Islamists.
Reply to L Halaby,
Name me one time an MSU-sponsored speaker at UCI was disrupted like that. You can’t. Your idea of free speech only extends to your side.
Gary Fouse
Adj teacher
UCI-Ext
Let me tell you what happens if they wait for a Q & A session to discuss the political matters. Ambassador Michael Oren is a smart speaker, as many Zionists are, and know how to twist words and remove from them from context–very persuasive–and the moment he makes his reply to a question, the hall is thundered with applause of ignorant people.
Muslims here have little opportunity to fight against the ongoing injustice in Palestine. They were right in their method of preventing this Zionist from spreading his evil propaganda. By disrupting Oren, people actually see that students are willing to take risks in order to deliver the message (they were told that drastic measures would be taken; suspension, arrest, etc.) This is a just cause, and I have mad respect for those who stood up and spoke out. The event was cut short. Success.
Let me translate for you- Oren is a better speaker and better armed with facts. My side is barbaric and can only rely on the most crudest of tactics to hope we can somehow influence the easily led.
Muslims have little opportunity to help palestine? What are the muslims doing other then calling those who dare cross it? Theo Van Gogh ring a bell?
I would just be bummed if I was going there to learn (even if it is just one side of things) and could not because of protestors interrupting. Couldn’t they make their points by protesting outside, or better yet, couldn’t they just host their own speakers to educate people on what they see as the issues?
This was not intended to be an academic/educational event.
If it was:
1. the propaganda would have been filtered out
2. the academics (undergrad students/ professors/ and graduate students) would have filled the hall— instead the majority of the audience was 50+ and on walkers. You really think they were coming to learn something new? or listen to their story over and over again?
3.Lastly, they do host their own speakers. however, UCI administration does not co-sponser their events. biased much?
Holy cow, the event has only been over for an hour and there is already a full article with 57 comments and harsh debate! Ah, the wonders of the internet
As I have said for years…..
Nuke everything from Morocco to Pakistan. Fuse it like a giant pane of glass and Windex the whole shebang.
Every Semitic tribe gets the Big Mushroom.
The rest of the world will be better off.
Hitler tried that on someone.
Last I checked those semetic tribes brought you sweet baby jesus.
These people interrupted. but they stood for the truth!!! they are brave. and they did what is right
Hey BODE; of COURSE Muslims here have little opportunity to influence the Palestinian situation. They are THOUSANDS of miles away!!!! How about this……they can hop a plane back to their country of origin, then hot foot it to Palestine and do whatever they can to change things? Bon flippin’ voyage! Don’t let the plane door hit you on the way out!
Gawd, I’m sick of this.
“Gawd, I’m sick of this.”
I can relate. I was just short of 10 when the Six-Day War broke out. I just remember it as being a big deal on the news at the time.
Assume I live another 40 years, and by some miracle hit 90. Knowing nothing will change in those 40 years, that means for my entire life i will have read about some nonsense in the Mideast every so often in the papers, and on TV , and have to listen to people get riled up about it.
I say nuke ‘em all.
When I was 16 I lived in Greece, and an American classmate of mine made the same statement about Kosovo and Serbia.
The entire class gave it to her.
You my friend have the intellect of a 16 year old. Nuke em all is your answer for everything.
You would think after forty years something might have gotten through that thick skull of yours. That’s ok you have 40 more years to get it.
One day you might even realize your country has helped perpetuate this war.
Oh yeah…..Read “Muslim Mafia”. It’s a very informative, eye opening book.
G’night!
America needs to stop supporting Israel and propping up Muslim dictatorships.
I wish we as humans wouldn’t always find reasons to hate and kill one another.
Israel is an apartheid state. There is a Boycott Divestment and Sanction movement going on against Israel just as there was for Apartheid South Africa.
This is a part of that & I support it. The main stream media is afraid to criticize Israel. There is NOTHING Israel has done or can do to Palestinians that the majority of our elected “representatives” have the bravery to say “No” to, including bombing civilians with white phosphorous.
Our neighbors to the north made this video.
http://bit.ly/9M6zos Watch it & find out how 3 billion of our tax dollars are being used. BTW-Israel is the Number One recipient of US foreign aid.
Really? Well next time your wonderful people want to get on a plane to use it as a bomb somewhere, why don’t you get on El Al and see how far you get. Your neighbors video? I wouldn’t bother as it is propaganda which is what you and your ilk are pumping here and you’d probably infiltrate any computer that tried your link.
double standards in everything
“An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.”
- MLK
Food for thought
You know MLK was pro-Israel, right?
““peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality.” March 25, 1968
If that’s true, then it’s pretty ironic isn’t it?
i mean, you honestly can’t support justice and israel at the same time. just doesn’t make sense
Come on folks it was just a protest. It was’nt like they were trying to cut his head off while he was still alive.
As a part-time teacher at UCI, I was there. It was despicable. I have atetnded numerous MSU-sponsored events in the past few years. No matter how hateful their speakers were, they were allowed to speak without disruption.
Tonight the MSU should that there IS a problem at UCI. They did themselves and fellow Muslims a huge disservice tonight.
Gary Fouse
Adj teacher
UCI-Ext
The only disgrace here is that a teacher at UCI can’t put together a cohesive sentence.
“Tonight the MSU should that there IS a problem at UCI. They did themselves and fellow Muslims a huge disservice tonight.”
Thanks for mentioning that it was tonight twice, just in case we missed it like I’m sure you did. Also, I’m pretty sure you meant tonight the MSU *showed” not should, no wonder you’re only a part time teacher.
Mr Intifada,
Check and mate, bro! You could have delivered an equally substantive and perhaps pithier point to Gary Fouse by just replying, “Oh yeah? Well yo mama!” I suppose when you’ve been had dead to rights, a helpful strategy is to make fun of diction and typos. Nevermind the fact that he’s right. Pay attention.
That’s not true. The jewish club always causes distrubtions during all MSU events! they even dressed up as a clown one time to distract the audience! They do something crazy and disrespectful at every MSU event!
That was amazing! You have spoken for billions of people around the world! Zionism is the last social darwinistic evil on earth and it’s losing its grip. Once it falls, the Jews will be free of such an evil, sadistic ideology that has led them astray for more than 70 years. They must return to the Book. I wish Zionism a speedy and silent death, but unfortunately it may want to go out like its sister ideologies of World War II. Will they learn to not let history repeat itself? Let’s hope so.
Those students have heart, a politician like Oren should not be allowed to have any kind of power. Goes to shoe how backwards the world is now
civil disobedience.
all for it! UCI you all were fabulous.
beautifully said!
No sympathy for the Oren fellow … let’s put politikal correctness aside, Israel is treating the palestinians just as the nazi’s treated its jews. palestinians are second class citizens. as such, this oren fellow garners no respect.
lula you need to read a little bit of history! The Nazis did not just treat the Jews as 2nd class citizens, they set out to eliminate them. And the Jews at that time were mostly not fighting back. They were lied to as they were herded into transport to the camps.
They were not casualties of fighting. They were human men, women and children who were rounded up and taken to the camps–if they weren’t killed first. And then many of them again, men, women and children were killed while in the camps and many others died of malnutrition, disease and lack of medical care. The survivors who came out of the camps looked like walking skeletons.
I haven’t seen any pictures of Palestinians looking like that although I do realize that life is difficult for them.
Of course many of the Palestinian casualties were because the terrorists inhumanely fire rockets from the middle of civilian areas so that civilians will be killed when Israel tries to knock out the rockets.
This country is open for all – in an orderly fashion of course. It doesn’t matter where you came from, how you came, why you came or when you came. However, what does matter is that you’re here now. Therefore, the sooner you can let go of the things that make you unique and begin to melt into American culture, the better off you’ll be. If you hold on too hard, your neighboors are going to get a little nervous. If you don’t want to let go, perhaps you should go back home and be happy. It’s hard to say what an American really is, but it’s easy to say what an American isn’t.
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It’s beautiful when people stand up for what they believe in. Good job students! Stand up to this oppressive nation “israel” and its representative.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4&feature=related
here the Jews were interrupting .. I see no policeman taking anyone outside or are they allowed to do that? Maybe in Canada it’s a different story.
The students did nothing outrageous. They made a point and each one of them left peacefully. on the other hand look how outrageous were the other side( watch the last part of UC Irvine clip) . People giving fingers.. They have no manners. Specially the old man saying ” you are failing your tests”
Great point, the protesters were called terrorists, camel jockeys, suicide bombers, towel heads, sand people, and also told that the Jews would “kill you all like animals” while protesters didn’t say anything racist at all. Which side is the outrageous one again?
In this video we see students protest at some of Finkelstein’s words, but we don’t see them actually silencing him and censoring him, trying to turn the university into some Middle Eastern bazaar like what happened in Irvine. Don’t try to find some sort of equivalence between pro and anti Israeli protesters, because there isn’t.
Even though I do not agree with Israeli policies, I found it rude for these students to disrupt the Ambassador’s speech.
Those kids were acting like a bunch of bullies! They intimidate other Muslim kids that don’t agree with them. There really is no choice but to keep tabs on them for future reference. They just can’t go around threatening people if they don’t like who they are or what they are saying. It’s not democratic and this society is supposed to be a democracy. They’re behaving like gangsters and what’s worse is they may become terrorists if they aren’t happy. So keep track of them.
English Defence League check it out and support
I think Israel has been pretty patient with its surrounding neighbors considering they have been attacked 3 separate times by Arab nations. Why are Arabs so hateful. Why do they beat their women, have multiple wives, kill gays, and are soo intolerant?????? Israel is a symbol of light in the middle east. Arab nations are backwards and a symbol of oppression.
that sounds a bit like america! at least, the south, where they kill gays, lynch blacks and beat their wives.
i don’t know where you get this perception of arabs… its like an arab looking at a racist southerner and thinking that all americans are like that… and i’m sure they think we’re just as bad as you think they are!
which is awful. give people more credit.
Those students were very BRAVE for standing up for something they believe in. Israel’s actions are disgusting and anyone with any regard for the suffering of others would agree that their government should be condemned. How can anyone blindly support the interests of a state (Israel) over supporting social justice? The reasoning the pro-Israeli crowd uses is terrible in every aspect.
All of these other comments are ridiculous. Using ad hominem attacks against Muslims isn’t proving why the students were wrong for doing what they did. Had it been a pro-Palestinian speaker who was interrupted by Jewish students shouting “anti-semite!” at the top of their lungs would you still feel the same way? Either freedom of speech applies to all or it applies to none. Trust me, I went to school at a very pro-zionist campus for two years (transferred out) and I saw speakers with very pro-Palestinian views be harassed on that campus to no end. I’m wondering how many people here would say that harassment by Jewish students is justified…
“Stand up for what is right, even if you are standing alone.” <—– what I tell myself every day.
The reasoning of the pro-Israel crowd is this:
1. Israel is not going away, as much as Hamas and the UCI protestors would like to drive the Jews into the sea. Not going to happen. Argue about the justice of the original establishment of Israel as long as you want, turning back the clock prior to 1948 isn’t realistic.
2. Israelis overwhelmingly want to live normal lives — that is, lives where they don’t have to worry whether the guy next to them has a bomb under his jacket, or be ready to duck when Hamas sends another rocket in their direction. As such, they would make peace in a heartbeat, if they could be confident the other side was negotiating in good faith, and not just angling for advantage in the next round of killing.
3. When Hamas and other groups dedicated to destroying Israel shoot at Israel, Israel is going to shoot back. It is going to be a lot more effective than Hamas, since Israel is a civilized nation, and civilized nations fight much more lethally than people whose mentality and tactics are basically medieval.
4. Hamas intentionally fights so as to multiply civilian casualties among Palestinians, the better to generate good anti-Jewish propaganda. Israel doesn’t intentionally target civilians (if for no other reason than that it looks bad). Hamas, on the other hand, makes no bones about its intent to kill Jews, civilian or military.
5. Whatever sympathy I might have once had for the Palestinians’ troubles, they lost it by virtually inventing modern civilian-killing terrorism. Some things you just don’t do, no matter how noble your cause.
6. Shouting a speaker down is fascist. Sorry for the Godwin’s Law violation, but it just is. You can make your point without forcibly denying the other guy the right to make his. I have no respect for apologists for fascists.
Current muslim societal behavior / Islam = radicals and/or enablers = savages. See Ahmadinejad for further “2012″ belief-touting bufoonery.
What do you think all these LIBERALS are going to do? They think that having these terrorist run over Isreal is no crime? Your seeing what’s happening to this country now with all the BLEEDING HEART liberals. We have lost THOUSANDS of Americans from 9-11 and they think that it’s not going to happen again?
We’ve lost more Americans from our ill-fated and ill-advised response to 9-1-1-.
We also lose many times more Americans every year due to lack of access to health care than died in 9-1-1-.
I don’t say this to minimize 9-1-1, but to maximize the other losses which were and are far greater.
But then, I’m just a BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL, so feel free to summarily dismiss my comments.
Were these same ignorant students to behave in the same manner in Hamas controlled Gaza, protesting a Hamas speaker, they would beaten or shot. What a bunch of fools they were. They were disrespectful of the guest speaker and members of the audience. It’s no wonder so many Americans don’t like Muslims…..
Heckling is being equated with criminality, just like protest and self-defense is being equated with terrorism.
“Protest and self-defense” = blowing up Sbarros and bar mitzvahs. Got it.
Some of the comments on this post are quite amusing. These students are not foreigners or representatives of some foreign entity. They are Americans, just as American as you are. Maybe what they did was rude, but it has nothing to do with what goes in an foreign countries.
Furthermore, the internal policies of Israeli’s neighbors (who the same MSU students also constantly condemn) do no in any way justify what Israel does.
Michael Oren represents a state that destroyed 37 Palestinian schools and universities in Gaza just last year.
Does this guy deserve to speak in our educational institutions?
I don’t think so!!!
Shame on the school for cosponsoring his talk..
I hear 38, do I have a 39?
How about some context here? Could it be that they were used to shoot rockets from into Israel? Hamas has tactic of using civilian areas to shoot their rockets from thus putting civilians in danger.
Blame Hamas for the casualties–not Israel. Israel is trying to defend itself.
If rockets were being shot at S CA from Mexico would we be as restrained as Israel has been? I doubt it.
Why don’t they condemn Hamas for putting Palestinian civilians in danger by shooting the rockets from right in the midst of civilians?
If these are students, then they should be expelled. After they lose their student visas, then deport them. There is nothing brave about standing up and screaming like a jerk. How exactly were they brave? The police didn’t manhandle them. They were just walked out. A toddler can scream and stomp his foot and mumble few words.
This isn’t their school, it is paid for by the CA taxpayers. Free speech? Free speech doesn’t give you the right to yell during a talk. Want to protest? Go for it, have a protest outside and obey the laws of this country.
lol. None of these students are foreigners. Try to understand this. They are all American citizens just like you are.
It is one thing to say they are rude. But when you make silly accusations like that, it shows your own prejudices.
you should go back to where you came from!
Just because someone isn’t as racist as you doesn’t make them a foreigner. None of those students were foreigners, they were all American-born
None of these students are foreigners? LOL. Did you miss all of their accents? I doubt very much they have all become citizens in the short time they have been attending UCI. Who exactly are you trying to fool?
I’m prejudice against anyone who shuts down another’s free speech. Protest all you want – outside. I repeat follow the rules of THIS COUNTRY.
no they are not foreigners they are americans and i have known them and they are just as amrican as anyone else
Really, look how you spelled American. This is nothing to kid about.
Most of the students were born here in southern California. Living in Cali your whole life doesn’t give you an automatic white accent, especially when your bilingual. You’ve obviously never met a black person or mexican that was born in here if you think that their accents make them foreigners.
And you know what, I agree. I’m also against anyone who shuts down another’s free speech. But get this straight. This man is representing a country that has killed over 1500 civilians, destroyed homes, hospitals, and schools (even ones owned by the UN), used white phosphorus and other such chemicals on human beings, and God knows what I’m missing here, in under a 2 month span just last year.
If you believe this person reserves the right to be respected in a SCHOOL among CIVILIANS and the right to spread his Zionist propaganda so future actions can be justified as well, then I don’t know what to say.. ill leave it there
““An individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law.” Martin Luther King Jr.
Take your Hamas propaganda elsewhere. Your side shot first, intentionally firing from civilian neighborhoods with the specific intent of getting civilians killed by counterattacks.
Martin Luther King Jr. practiced and promoted peaceful and civil dialogue, not rude, disrespectful, uncivilized outbursts.
Who cares. We have enough problems.
What you talkin’ ’bout Willis?
Happy to read no one lost there head. What we need is more Islamic students standing up for free speech . . . yeah we need that like we need another 9/11. I really like girls standing up for these guys on this page. That’s funny.
There is nothing to found either morally significant nor peaceful in the Muslim Religion. It is either their total domination of the world (A Modern Nazi Movement Called Islam) that is a pariah on all Civilized Nations. Wake up to the hollow and deceitful antics of the UC Muslim Association and CAIR. They harbor murder and treason within their hearts.
Wake Up America and Expel the Cancer that loves the freedom, but disdains and hates the Constitution of the United States.
We are all Infidels in their eyes and only deserving of death at the hands of jihad. All ah – All Ah What? More murders of even their own Muslim Brothers, Sisters and Children.
Jesus Christ is the answer. The only answer.
New Crusader: Do you think our Savior would harbor the ignorant, malevolent thoughts about Muslims that you seem to? He taught us to hate sin but love the sinner. If you really believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior, you would be reaching out to Muslims with love and tolerance. Your post shows your true colors Crusader. These things you say and do are for your own misguided purposes not God’s. You aren’t fooling anyone except yourself.
New Crusader said nothing derogatory about Muslims – he was criticizing Islam.
Once again, your racism is shocking. I, an undergraduate at UCI, personally know most of these fellows, and assure you they are all American, and 9 out of 10 are born in America. No one is trying to fool you. Perhaps you would learn a little from trying to meet some new people rather than simply shouting out accusations. Your emphasis on ‘this country’ as if they have loyalty to any other country, is quite appalling.
I sincerely hope, for your own good, that you stop making accusations against people, and instead meet them and talk to them. You’d be surprised how much your view of the world changes!
The only thing accomplished by tonight’s stunt by the MSU was to perpetuate the negative stereotype of the angry young muslim male.
If you’re passing yourselves off as pseudo-intellectual “activists” as most of the supporters of these thugs are attempting to do…I would suggest you stop shooting yourselves in the foot by making public spectacles like a spoiled three-year old….or a rowdy sports fan. This includes the female protesters who were present.
There is a time for question and answer sessions in which these students could have engaged in a dialog discussion of the facts. Instead, you ONLY succeeded at lowering the bar to a thuggish mentality…ala Jerry Springer. Is this how rational students seeking knowledge are supposed to act?
I suspect some of these “activists” were not even associated with UCI or are MUCH LESS even enrolled at the university. Some of the protesting women looked so incredibly old like they were the mothers of these angry young men.
I was not present at the event, however, as a mere observer who looked at both the UCI video and the protesters youtube clips….these actions were not scholarly nor were they rational. Many of the supporters of the students preach about having an open mind….there is nothing honorable in disrupting an organized event. In most cultures (including muslim), when you invite a guest to your house, you are to treat them with respect….not spit food in their faces! I see no honor in the actions of the muslim student union.
Enjoy the privilege of free speech you find in the US. Most of these students appear to be citizens raised in OC. Remember, most of the countries of these students ethnic heritage would never such a spectacle to take place!
I agree. The actions were rude interruptions, not civil disobedience. There’s nothing civil about yelling. People just go into a defensive mode when someone is screaming at them because the situation only presents a threat and a sense of danger.
never again
I hold these students who had the audacity to speak out in high esteem. I do not care what other people say about me, I will not side with a country that has violated human rights.
Then you probably don’t like America, either. Our nation is riddled with social injustices such as human trafficking, theft, murder, rape, etc.
What nation in this world has not violated human rights?
That would be…pretty much every Arab nation that exists, minus maybe the UAE. And certainly the PA kleptocrats and Hamas gangsters.
Give it up. It’s all about the Judenhass.
The Israeli Government and its representatives (Ambassador Michael Oren) are responsible for leading a mass murder campaign. Innocent children and women are being slaughtered to death in Palestine, and are not given the simple right of life. It is the role of people who stand for justice to protest against Israel’s brutal war machine, and propaganda. What the UCI students did nothing but an act of protest against the Israeli Governments war crimes.
“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. ”
Martin Luther King, Jr.
The Israeli Government and its representatives (Ambassador Michael Oren) are responsible for leading a mass murder campaign. Innocent children and women are being slaughtered to death in Palestine, and are not given the simple right of life. It is the role of people who stand for justice to protest against Israel’s brutal war machine, and propaganda. What the UCI students did was nothing but an act of protest against the Israeli Governments war crimes.
“He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. ”
Martin Luther King, Jr.
The Palestinians had many opportunities for their own state. They ruined it by suicide bombing. We should be fighting like this in Afghanistan.
it’s really disappointing to see that so many people continue to use islam and terrorism interchangeably. If this is so then we should call all germans nazis. We should refer to christians as extreme racists whose goals are to cleanse the world of black people; the KKK. To assume that islam is about murder and violence is ridiculous. I advise you to go do some research before coming to such crude accusations. If Islam is such a an evil and corrupt religion then please explain why so many people around the world continue to convert to this religion? Before you go around bashing on other religions and backgrounds, you should really try to validate your opinions. Ignorance will only perpetuate more conflict. And for those of you who care to know, yes I am Muslim and no I am not a terrorist nor do I agree with any acts of terrorism. As for the event tonight, I don’t think that these students behaved in the most efficient manner. However, I do think that what they did was courageous. If not for individuals like these there would be no revolutions, there would be no civil rights, and most importantly the America that is so proudly developed on some of these basic human rights and liberties would not exist.
I’m not going to bash Israelis or Jews because I don’t think they are the problem. However, I do blame the institutions for committing multiple crimes against humanity.
Finally, I’d like to pose a question and please respond honestly. If you were watching as Adolf Hitler was presenting a speech and someone stood up and protested in defense of his people, would you call him a coward?
THANK YOU! I agree with everything you said!
While I don’t think all Muslims are terrorists, neither has Islam shown itself to be a peaceful religion. In various parts of the world in Muslim majority countries, Muslims attack Christians or those of other religions. They have burned churches or prevented worshipers from entering their churches to worship. Christians have been attacked and killed just for being Christians.
If a Muslim dares to leave Islam and become a Christian it often is at risk of his own life. Even in the US I have heard an Eqyptian who became a Christian and who shares his faith openly who has been threatened for it.
So while I hope most American Muslims are like ones that I know that live peacefully with their neighbors, I wonder at some of these comments.
I would hope that we could all have peaceful and civil dialog with those of other viewpoints as I have done with some Muslims. And I have some friends who are Palestinian.
The protesters could have distributed essays and pamphlets to express their concerns. They could have used blogs, twitter, and facebook. There are more civil ways to protest.
It is clear that their motive was to disrupt the speaker. Any person can yell, but it takes a little more effort to argue the salient points in a self-controlled manner.
If they used your “civiized” methods we wouldn’t have heard it.
This method is used everywhere, and speakers should come ready for this when they know they are not welcome.
I disagree. I did not hear about this event until I read the paper. The freedom of press has significant influence. Just look at the number of comments about this article. Nobody hears about it when there is a failure to distribute the information. UCI is a large campus. Are you telling me that they could not distribute essays and fliers for public review? Perhaps they would have gained an audience with Oren and exercised diplomacy. Their actions just had them arrested and all they received was a small mention in the Register.
and that’s where you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Oren was welcome and the protesters and their methods will not succeed!
thank you studentsfor raising your voices for the voiceless and making it known what atrocities are being committed by israel.
The only ones that were authorized or should have been allowed to respond to the students’ shouting are the administrators and the police. Yet, as we can clearly see, many (if not most) of the older members of the audience were harassing the students. They antagonized and made crude gestures to the students very openly and blatantly. Those members of the audience were not escorted out and have not been demonized.
If anything, the protesters were respectful to the elders attacking them by not responding to their crude behavior. Their point was to disrespect the speaker because they felt like he did not deserve any respect that he is getting by the campus due to his nation’s disrespect for human rights and international law.
The speaker said “this is not Tehran.” Did we forget that we chastised Iran for jailing protesters? Did we forget that we hold ourselves high and mighty because we uphold the right to speak out against what we deem to be injustice? These students were exercising what they value in this nation, their nation, and that is the right to free speech. They are attending the University to become valuable members of society, while also contributing to the progression of the values our Constitution was made to ensure.
As a former student of UCI and a dear friend to some of the members in attendance of the event, I attest that the majority (if not all) of the students in the Muslim Student Union of UCI are proud citizens of this nation. They have been here all of their lives, or for the majority of it. They value this nation based on the belief of upholding justice within our nation and beyond. And they do believe that the nations of their ancestry are nations that should undergo regime change to bring an improvement in human rights. Any discriminatory remark against Muslims on this board is clearly stereotyping and based only on fear and hate. I believe any educated remark clearly stands on its own merits, as does a derogatory one.
Then why won’t these students stand against Islamic extremism? Israel arrests and prosecutes Jewish terrorists who attack Palestine and Muslims. Why don’t the Muslim students speak out against the Taliban, or Al-Qaeda, or the Iranian regime? When Muslims end the sufferings they commit against their own people, only then will they have the right to criticize other nations
Many of the Muslim and Arab students already speak out heavily against the regime in Tehran. If you look for green armbands or hair ties, it is a symbol of the green revolution in protest of Ahmadinejad being re-elected. What happened today is associated with Palestine and that alone.
It was unfortunate the event went the way it did. Diplomacy will be the only means by which we achieve peace, it is about time either side realizes that.
Oh yeah–wearing green armbands–that takes guts.
AnitOpression–you raise good points, so I assume all of these students will be out in force tomorrow verbally protesting the 683 Muslims killed in Jan of this year from Muslims and the 1251 critically injured–most of these from car bombs. As I said in an earlier post, I am not defending the oppressive policies of Israel, Palestine is not the major issue, but a distraction. The Islamic world is under attack from within, and the attention of Muslim world should focus on their real enemy–the intolerant and violent people who have “hijacked” your religion and are killing Muslims. How can these individuals in one breath shout down the ambassador, yet I don’t hear their voices raised daily over the oppression of women and the killing of Muslims world wide-by Muslims.
Well said, Anti Oppression
This man is the official representative of a country that burns children with white phosphorus as a matter of policy, starves the people of Gaza as a matter of policy, dispossesses non-Jews as a matter of policy. I don’t care for disruption, but it’s very hard to fault it, under the circumstances.
Considering the tactics used against Israel by the Palestinians, what’s wrong with Israel’s response?
Now that is what I call Free Speech in action! To all of you ignorant people out there, these students had every right to stand up for what they believe. Honestly, if you don’t like what they did then you might as well just go and live under a dictatorship. It is just sad how we Americans completely overlook our greatest right, the right to organize and protest what we believe is wrong.
Note: that was funny how that idiotic professor was telling one of the students that he will fail his exam or something, I am a professor at UCI and I know for sure that such threat coming from a professor because the student exercised his right is grounds for dismissal. But what can you do, it like blowing air into a leaky balloon.
You, Kyle, sound precisely as many of the professors at UCSD. Here, as with UCI, it is the Muslim students and their Middle East Profs who are the disruptive, insensitive, extremely rude group. Maybe one in 500 of you have ever stepped foot in Palestine or Israel, and as such only have word of mouth or the liberal press to provide you the information you so loudly (obnoxiously) put forth. When I was at University we’d have been expelled for such as this.
For the little it matters, I am find this behavior appalling, regardless of who the speaker, or the desire to disagree. There can be no center point in agreeing or finding the resource to comprehend the others needs – as in finding a peaceful resolution – with such behavior.
Regretfully it is the Muslims who are practicing disruptive methods to convey their hatred toward the Jews, Christians and the USA in particular…world wide. This makes them their own worst enemy. They cannot get along with each other let alone anyone who doesn’t follow their Allah. Muslims kill more Muslims than all other nationalities and religious beliefs combined.
Well said–the Palestinian conflict is a distraction, used by the Muslim world to divert attention and hatred about the real problem–Muslim leaders, radical Islamist and the oppressive regimes that centralize power and wealth in the Muslim world. Where is the daily outrage from these students (oh I forgot they wear green armbands). Here is the address of the Saudi Consulate in LA–go protest the real evil in the Middle East
CONSULATE GENERAL-SAUDI ARABIA
(310) 479-6000
2045 Sawtelle Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90025
You are a professor at UCI? you sure don’t write like one. As to who is ignorant, it appears you don’t know the meaning of dictatorship and free speech. Protesting and organizing is OK, preventing others from learning and hearing what they are interested in, is not. As to the professor who was warning not one but several students they will fail his exam, how do you know what he was talking about? Do you know if he knows them personally or not? do you know if he gave them an assignment to sit and listen to the ambassador? Since you have no idea, you have no right to an opinion. BTW, it is sad that as a professor you have no idea that there is a difference between disagreeing and disrupting others. Nobody has the right to disrupt a speech like that, if you do you will be arrested. Teach that to your students professor!
GO ISRAEAL!!!
The Palestinians had many opportunities to have their own state. Their suicide bombings ruined the opportunity. These islamic fanatics don’t know what they want.
For thousands of years my family has stood resolute in the face of persecution and maintained their Jewish identity. I too will not back down in the face of adversity. I will stand strong. For I am a Jew, I am a Zionist, and I am proud of who I am. Today we, as Jewish people and Zionist, took a stand at UCI. We sent a message that we are here to stay at this campus. We also sent a message that the attempted censorship of our speech by members of the MSU will not be tolerated. Freedom of speech is an Israeli value (Israel is the only country in the Middle East with freedom of speech) and freedom of speech is an American value. Tonight the MSU in a preplanned and coordinated attack tried to stifle freedom of speech on an academic campus. They tried to mimic the oppression of countries like Iran, but as Americans and Israelis we stood firm together in the face of oppression and triumphed. Israel is the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people and just like we will not be ran out of our country we will not be ran out of UCI.
- Co-host of the event and UCI School of Law Student
I get the shouting got a little intense, but from reading what you wrote it sounds like you inherited the siege mentality from your parents.
Your ancestral homeland is also Pals ancestral homeland. They are the ones without a country today. You have to recognize that Israel is the Mac daddy of the block now.
Yes Arab countries are backwards, but that doesn’t mean they don’t deserve their own country.
The tough guy attitude will only work for so long, time is not going to be on Israels side forever. This conflict is unsustainable. Better to reach out to the more reasonable.
Great point Zo,
Joshua, you of all people should realize then how adversely this affecting the Palestinian people. and honestly, enough of that “I have been oppressed for so long, now it is your turn to be oppressed” attitude.
If “Palestinians” don’t like Israeli “oppression”, they are free to leave.
“the more reasonable” are not the ones who make the decisions. It’s the people like Ahmadinejad and Hamas and MSU who matter, not the moderates.
Hamas and Ahmadinejad thrive on conflict. You are playing into their hands. Most people we want to sit back, watch TV, and raise kids.
The whole siege mentality puts people in a state of panic that perpetuates more wars. Like the US after 911.
Israel is a safe and stable country, the Palestinians deserve one too. If you want to defeat Hamas, give the Palestinians a real country.
Zo, Israel is a safe and stable country. Well it is stable, but its people have to live with the reality that a terrorist could blow up or shoot up the shopping center they are at. Or rockets could rain down on their towns from Gaza.
I sure don’t think we would be as restrained as the Israelis have been if that were happening here. As far as the Palestinians getting a country of their own, its interesting that for many years the West Bank and Gaza were controlled by surrounding Arab nations–Jordan, Syria and Egypt.
During all those many years from Israeli independence until 1967 when they took that territory in a war defending their very existence, the refugees were kept in the refugee camps.
Those Arab nations took in some refugees but so many of them were kept in those camps. t hey did nothing to give the Palestinians a land of their own. It was Israel that has taken steps to do that, but negotiations have broken down. Arafat turned down a plan to give them a land.
That’s right. If someone wants to challenge the ambassador do it in a thoughtful manner that invites respect and not contempt!
I just want to say that I have no problem with Muslims, born here or elsewhere. I, in fact, love how Orange County is getting more and more diverse. I may also agree with their views if I were more educated on all sides of the issues.
I do not like, though, that they protested in such a way as to disrupt someone else speaking. That’s not how free speech is supposed to work.
Keep up your work trying to bring attention to your causes, but please do so in a way that allows others to hear what they want to hear.
Never again
Never again
never again
Moslems = 1.4 Billion , Jewish = 15 Million , about 1 to 90. Think someone is in trouble!
Think someone is over producing?
“Tonight was a wonderful demonstration of free speech by these brave students!”
“These students illustrate free speech at its finest and succeeded in making their voices heard!”
Did you people go to school in the USA? When you attempt to shout someone down you diminish not just his right to say it, but my right to hear it. How can you miss the whole point of freedom of speech by applauding the efforts by these people to deny the very exercise of that right by Ambassador Oren. Does freedom of speech only extend to those you agree with? Ambassador Oren was exercising freedom of speech. The students on the other hand were doing everything they could to limit his right to speak. The right to freedom of speech doesn’t extend to disruptive behavior that denies another his right to speak. Freedom of speech isn’t about who can yell the loudest. The students were going to have an opportunity to make comments afterwards but they blew it by their behavior. The opposing students have every right to ask that speakers who agree with their point of view also appear at the university to speak. Until then, sit down, shut up and listen!
thanks MSU, you continue to choose raucous ways to get your voice across. take a point from the people who protest your rallies at the flagpoles…you know, the ones where that guy straight up says destroy israel. but oh well, at least this is better than funding Hamas…
I’m proud of every student who was brave enough to speak their mind! Good for you!
I am an Arab Muslim and I met the love of my life — an Israeli who’s dad served in the IDF– at UCI.
While the rest of them were busy shouting at each other and perpetuating this nonsense, we were too busy boinking, laughing, and making this world a better place.
If Arabs and Jews can’t make peace in Irvine then how will they in Jerusalem?
It’s that easy.
You said it perfectly! Congrats on finding the love of your life.
just glad no bombs went off….
I am glad no Israeli solidier were called in to the scene with human shields from the Pals.
Mala Said; It’s beautiful when people stand up for what they believe in. Tonight was a wonderful demonstration of free speech by these brave students!”
This is the problem, the protesting students are rude and disrupting a civilized society. If they can’t behave then they, rightfully, deserve to be shown the door. This was a forum for a speech, not a shouting match.
“Bravery” you say? I hardly think so.
Civility trumps Shouting trumps Violence,
*and ignorance is always apparent.
I don’t see how taking away the freedoms of others, in this case the freedom of the Israeli to speak by interrupting, filibustering, and harassing him, was a “demonstration of free speech”. It wasn’t a demonstration of free speech. It was robbing another of their right to free speech. It was thuggery.
It is sad things have become so twisted that thuggery and bullying others is now described as a “demonstration of free speech”. Obviously, people have become confused about freedom. It means freedom for all, not just those you happen to agree with.
Leave it to the angry old white ppl to be just as unrefined. I.e., the old lady shouting ‘out.’ Yea, you’re sooo civil. :p
Of course the Ambassador is called a “monster” and Israel is accused of human rights violations. So I guess Palestinian suicide vest bombers and those who build car bombs to shred innocent women and children are all perfectly OK. The hypocrisy of these protesters is appalling.
Wow there are some racist people on this board. I don’t think the article said anything about the students all being foreigners or even arabs. Actually none of them were foreigners and over half weren’t even arab. They were just people standing up and speaking out against a man who was part of a war that killed over 20,000 Lebanese in the 80’s, who was a spokesperson for another war in Lebanon that killed thousands, and also a spokesperson justifying the murder of over 1400 Palestinians in Gaza in less than a month. I think these students would have been “cowards” and “terrorists” as you have said earlier, if they sat quietly and allowed this war criminal to propagate his racist message.
I don’t know if you know this, but people die in wars. Woodrow Wilson and F.D.R and Harry Truman were part of a war that killed millions upon millions. Does that mean they are to blame? The purpose of the military is to kill. You are saying they killed 1400 palestinians in gaza in less than a month, how many palestinians did they encounter that they did not kill over the course of that month?
Everyone is guilty of trumping up numbers to seem important. American’s complain about the 19 people we lost in Somalia way back when, while the somalian’s lost nearly 2k. Americans complain about the few thousand that have died in iraq and afghanistan in the past decade and the iraqis and afghanis complain about how many they have lost. Nobody likes losing people, but the numbers are irrelevant, they simply tell you who came out on top.
If two dogs attack eachother and one dies, that doesn’t mean the dog that lived was right or wrong, just that he was stronger, none-the-less, they are both still dogs, dead or alive.
That argument can go both ways.
Poor Petracca, I guess the night didn’t go as he had expected. He has made his little niche at UCI, and he hates when people ruin it for him. LOL
Michael Oren, the Israeli ambassador, missed an opportunity. The students who protested, along with the people who protested the protesters, have very strong feelings, convictions, about what is going on here in Israel/Palestine. As they should. The struggle for human rights is being felt and fought by both sides, although not everyone sees it that way.
The history of conflict here goes back further than we can imagine. What would have happened if Mr. Oren had given the protesters an audience?
What would have happened if not only mouths were opened in protest, but hearts were open to listen? Peace doesn’t just happen. It is as painful a process as being in love… and, even that usually takes two.
Good point! Too much shouting and no talking. I don’t get how anybody expects to solve anything that way.
Good point!
Um, Oren did offer the protesters an audience – the Q&A session that would have followed his speech,
As someone who attended the event today for sole purpose to hear one of our diplomats speak, it pained me greatly to see my fellow students act out in this manner. I know many of them very well, however I feel that as was stated, there is a place and time for civility and respect. Though we as Americans have freedom of speech, was must exercise it with decorum.
I understand that the arguments and frustration felt by the protesters is linked to a multitude of emotional ties and political ideals. The atrocities committed by either side of the conflict is condemning. But my generation, those who are up and coming 19-20 something year-olds have an opportunity like none other. We have the opportunity to be proactive rather than reactive, we have the opportunity to be civil, and above all the chance to lessen the hate and bridge the gap through diplomacy. But it must start with us.
Regardless of our race, ethnicity, or religion, we must prove to the world through peaceful talks and negotiations that a common ground can and must be found. I realize much of what I have written is highly idealistic and maybe even naive, but praying for peace will only get us so far, “We must be the change we wish to see in the world”-Ghandi
It is Great to see Orange County students are finally waking up to protesting against the Israeli Apartheid State. The Israeli Ambassador has no welcome here- he supports the Gaza Gulag camp, the Israeli extortion of $30 billion from American Taxpayers, the AIPAC,ADL,MOSSAD corruption of our US Congress, the phony Iraq invasion and using our boys as canon fodder for the Israeli WAR CRIMES Machine and the attack on our Constitution by lobbying to pass the so-called “Hate Crimes” bill which will make it a felony offense to “intensely Criticize Israel”. Those who didn’t protest this time can arrange to have have these modern day war criminals arrested the next time Mr. Oren comes to the OC. Boycott/sanction/divest from Israel!
You have no idea what you are talking about. I think a great idea would be to exile you to Iran and let you see what great treatment you get there. Luckily, most americans couldn’t disagree with you more!
Typical behavior of the typical Iranians who make Orange County unlivable.
“Anyone of you who sees wrong, let him undo it with his hand; and if he cannot, then let him speak against it with his tongue, and if he cannot do this either, then (let him abhor it) with his heart, and this is the least of faith.” -Hadith
thank you jason
It’s worth noting that within Israel, there are many Jews who protest the government’s treatment of the Palestinians and are fighting for their rights. I think a majority of Jews there were really leaning in the direction of finding a peaceful solution to the conflict after the end of the Initifada, until Hamas took over Gaza and started shooting rockets at nearby Israeli communities and Hezbollah did the same from Lebanon. Israelis reacted in fear and anger and have lost much of their hope that Palestinians will ever be willing to live in peace with them–no matter how much land is returned. Now it will take time to rebuild sufficient trust to get back to a more moderate position.
A typical Muslim response. Why am I not surprised. What does surprise me is that UCI allows an organization like this on campus. If these protesters are shown to be members of this Muslim student group, then it should be disbanded.
Bottom line – The “Muslims” hate the Jews and always will.
P.S. If you compared the contributions to society that Jews have made vs. Muslims it isn’t even close. Muslim rarely if ever contribute anything of value on this planet. The Jews continually make advances that benefit all mankind. I could write about one hundred pages supporting this statement. And so could you with a little research.
Unfortunately the Muslim population is multiplying fast, faster than all others. We will all be outnumbered in about fifty years. I feel sorry for my grand kids in the “new” society they will create.
A typical Muslim response? Did you ever think of why Muslims respond in this manner? It is because our voice is not heard in Palestine OR HERE for that matter. When we try and speak out we are killed or beaten down to death! The same reasons why other religous groups are on campus is the same reason why a MUSLIM STUDENT UNION is inclined to have a place to say what they like. Do not claim that this group should be disbanned. Their placement at UCI brings diversity to the campus and a VOICE THAT NEEDS TO BE HEARD. If a muslim group will be brought down then all religious sects at UCI should be banned. You CANNOT SECLUDE the Muslims from being able to have the same freedom that the Jews & Christians have on campus. You’re bottom line is wrong!! Muslims DO NOT HATE JEWS, they hate people like MICHAEL OREN and DANIEL PIPES who are ZIONISTS! People who’s lifetime goal is to take over a land that was NEVER theirs by killing women and children and millions of innocent people! You are right about the contributions that the contributions made to society dont even compare to Jews vs. Muslims. Muslims have done so much for our Sciences, Mathematics, Food productions! Zionists were born to bring a hell into this world and START A WAR THAT IS UNNECESSARY. Name one everlasting and effective contribution that Zionists, not JEWS, ZIONISTS have made towards our world. With a little research YOU CAN FIND THE TRUTH. I hope you find the truth because you are utterly lost. MUSLIMS WILL CONTINUE TO MULTIPLY and continue to fight to the death for what we know is RIGHTFULLY OURS! As to all the rest of you, MAY ALLAH GUIDE YOU ON THE STRAIGHT PATH.
ProudPdxMuslim, What unnecessary war did Israel start? Israel has fought several wars with sur