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Chapman shoots up list of nation’s costliest schools
October 24th, 2009, 6:00 am · 45 Comments · posted by Gary Robbins, science writer-editor
Chapman President Jim Doti. Image courtesy of Chapman
In an earlier post, we reported that Chapman University in Orange charges more for tuition and fees than some of the country’s most famous schools, including Yale and Caltech (full story). The report was based on data from the latest US News and World Report rankings.
There is also a list of the nation’s 100 most expensive colleges and universities, based on tuition, room and board for one year, as applied to undergraduates. The list is put together by Campus Grotto, a website that covers college news nationally.
Campus Grotto’s annual list of the costliest schools just came out and it shows that Chapman soared from 93rd place last year to 63rd this year. (The total price tag at Chapman rose from $45,286 to $49,174 over that one year period.)
“It is important to note,” says Campus Grotto, “that just because these schools have high tuition, doesn’t mean you will actually be paying that amount. Many of these colleges provide excellent financial aid packages. A lot of these schools offer scholarships that often cover most of the financial burden of attending the college. For example, MIT is tuition-free for families earning less than $75,000 a year”
Jim Doti, Chapman’s president, said in an email, “Chapman is pretty much in the ballpark with other comparable schools. That’s what these data show – namely that Chapman costs are within $1000 of Pomona, Pepperdine and University of San Diego. The fact that we went up from 93rd to 63rd really doesn’t mean much, since all the schools are so tightly packed.
“Furthermore, the addition of Sandhu Residence Center pushed our average room and board up. That alone may account for the difference.
“The only missing piece of the puzzle now is financial aid. At Chapman, 82.4 percent of students receive aid – our highest percentage ever. In fact, our average financial aid to all students is around 36 percent.
“To ultimately determine comparative costs for colleges, we need to see what other schools give out. I’m confident that if we are able to get those data, we’ll confirm that Chapman is not only the best value (given its quality) but lowest in cost. Meantime, the only comparative data I have that includes financial aid is from the U.S. News rankings, where Chapman is one of the top-15 “Best Value” schools (Master’s Universities-West.) That ranking shows, for example, that Chapman’s cost, after financial aid, is lower than Loyola Marymount.”
Here’s the 10 costliest schools this year, according to the new Campus Grotto study:
College Total Cost
1. Sarah Lawrence College: $54,410
2. New York University: $51,991
3. George Washington University: $51,730
4. Bates College: $51,300
5. Skidmore College: $51,196
6. Johns Hopkins University: $51,190
7. Georgetown University: $51,122
8. Connecticut College: $51,115
9. Harvey Mudd College: $51,037
10. Vassar College: $50,875
Southern California schools, beyond the top 10:
12. Claremont McKenna College: $50,800
23. Scripps College: $50, 336
34. University of Southern California: $50,028
59. Pomona College: $49,361
63. Chapman University: $49,174
72. Occidental College: $48,750
74. Pepperdine University: $48,630
83. University of San Diego: $48,072
92. Pitzer College: $47,278
99. Loyola Maymount University: $46,880
Other College Life news …
Chapman president: Make courses tougher
UCI plummets in World University Rankings
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Does President Doti’s explanation sound reasonable to you?
I find it not reasonable that my post comparing the value of a dollar spent at each school disappeared. Far too touchy. Not going to bother to post anymore.
O.K. now its back. Technical problems?
Your post was not taken down.
To state Chapman is in the “ballpark with other comparable schools” - Pomona, Pepperdine and USD - puleeze! These three schools, especially Pomona are so far superior to Chapman it’s not even worth responding to such a comparison. As the “PT Barnum” of higher educaiton Doti tries to pull another fast one on the readers with his comment that “82.4 percent of students receive aid”. What he doesn’t tell the readers is this figure includes loans (yes, loans that students have to pay back).
How can they justify this price tag?
Unfortunatley, yes it does. Colleges and universities almost always justify tuition increases by comparing costs to other “like” universities. The cost of a buidling or center should not be funded by tuition increases, that is why you have an endowment, to fund such advancements. Also, Doti’s (insert any other college and university official) claim that Chapman distributes an average aid package that covers about a 1/3 of tuition is made up primarily of over $12,000 in federally guranteed loans (for most students). Schools always account for loans in their aid package estimates so not all of it is an actual scholarship or grant. Yale and Harvard cover full tuition for their needy students. Some area colleges often use their endowment to offer interest free loans so that students are not behind the eight ball when they graduate.
Pomona is a great school, and USD and Pepperdine are fine as well. But “far superior”? I guess we’ll see.
Oh, and very clever with the “PT Barnum” reference. Because PT also got a PhD in economics from University of Chicago and was known to use “MATH” to make an intelligent argument, right.
You just slay me ocobserver with your misinformation on your myriad of posts. No wonder no one takes your comments seriously, especially someone like me with a literate background who graduated from two schools that actually were worth their tuitions.
See here for University of Chicago info:
http://www.uchicago.edu/alumni/notable/
See here for PT Barnum info:
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761571960/P_T_Barnum.html
Unless Chicago is in New York or Connecticut, where PT lived most of his life, and unless he earned his “PHD” when he was dead (PT died in 1891, University of Chicago opened in 1892), PT Barnum never attended U of Chicago.
And since he is popularly credited (although little evidence exists he said it) with “there is a sucker born every minute”; I guess you filled the quota of that particular minute when you were born.
Sidney, you are either playing the foil well or cannot recognize sarcasm at all. I’m hoping its the former (fingers crossed)
If brains were gas, he couldn’t power a flea’s hybrid motorcycle around the inside of a Cheerio.
Oh, and ocobserver is an absolute nutcase
Notice no OC on the beginning of my name.
My Daughter is a Senior attending Chapman University for her 2nd year. She spent her first two years at Fullerton College making excellent grades. Her high grades entitled her to a grant, yes a grant from Chapman University, that was approximately 1/3 of her tuition for the two years. I am grateful that my Daughter is able to attend Chapman University because all the experience has really made a difference in her life!! The grant from Chapman University made it possible for her to attend this university, but she earned it because of her excellent grades. Here I believe we have an American success story! Thank You Chapman University, Bill
Thanks, Bill, for sharing. Your posting meant a lot to me. Jim Doti
Observer - it appears you did not like Rey’s reference to Mr. Doti as the “PT Barnum” of higher education. Sorry, but no one can argue with Doti’s ego - it’s even larger than the tuition at Chapman. He may have a PhD in economics, but so do many other college and university presidents who keep a low and professional profile. Doti’s personal exploits that appear on the Chapman website are frankly, embarassing. But back to the argument here - there is no way you can tell me that Chapman is comparable to Pomona, USC, Loyola or the Claremont Colleges.
Assuming that the respect for a degree from one of these colleges would be a function of the difficulty to gain acceptance to that school (a reasonable argument), It would be interesting to create a hybrid ratio by divided the cost of annual tuition by the acceptance percent. We could call it the “Tuition Value Equivalency Factor” indicating that a dollar spent at say Johns Hopkins would create more value than say a dollar at Chapman (again a reasonable argument). So, the more difficult it is to get in (or worthy) Chapman would end in the lower end of that product. Example: Chapman - $49,174/cost divided by 95% acceptance factor = $53,723, Harvey Mudd - $51,037 divided by a 72% acceptance factor = $70,884. I think your return on the dollar would be greater at Harvey Mudd, but you might not be able to get in.
Not a reasonable argument. Chapman’s acceptence rate isnt 95% (how the hell are you going to start down the path of an interesting idea and then not even back it up with any research?)
Chapman’s acceptance rate is quoted here, along with many other universities:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2006-11-02-collegerates_x.htm
Here are a few reasons why this metric wouldnt be a good proxy:
1. Youre not using effective per student costs
2. Low acceptance rates are not always indicative of a quality program necessarily (look at UCI’s new law school school, “lower” acceptance rates then Yale and Harvard law)
3. Your argument is based on the notion that rare=valuable. Not a very strong argument
4. Some of the most selective schools in the world offer their educations for free. Where would they rank?
Now if you want to make an economic argument about a Chapman education and whether or not the investment is worth it, and had some numbers behind it (avg graduate salary, effective cost per student, etc), that could be interesting.
I know it’s fun to jump to conclusions and make statements like: “These three schools, especially Pomona are so far superior to Chapman it’s not even worth responding to such a comparison”. Perhaps actually speaking to students and graduates from these schools may open your mind.
I can only comment on my experience at Chapman, I am sure students at these other schools could share similar success stories at their institutes. I am constantly surprised by the amount of comments made about Chapman (especially regarding articles like these), that are simply unqualified.
First off, while Pomona is excellent for a handful of majors, as is Pepperdine, Chapman as well has major programs that are the best in the state/west coast.
I was accepted to all 3 schools for undergraduate studies. I had friends that attended all 3 schools as well. After a year at a UC school, I transferred to Chapman University and was blown away by the experience. Had I gone to Pepperdine, I would be in $30k + debt. While my parents’ modest salaries did not qualify me for financial aid, Pepperdine would not count the factor my parents were divorced paying for 2 separate households and not able to significantly contribute to what my tuition would have been there.
Chapman financial aid office not only worked with my family, they counseled us to find the best ways to handle the cost of tuition, and offered substantial scholarship money based on my true financial need and scholastic/philanthropic accomplishments. I also took advantage of a well organized on-campus work study program. Upon graduation I owed less than $15k in student loans, my peers attending public schools had comparable debts to mine.
After graduation from Chapman, I was continually surprised at the high level of experience and knowledge I had in my field compared to graduates from many different public and private schools… including the schools listed above. Chapman provided real world experience: internships, networking opportunities, workshops, and instructors who were experts in their industry. My peers from these other schools truly struggled simply because their programs did not offer what I had received at Chapman. You may think you know things about Chapman or have “heard” things, but take it from an actual student/graduate, it is a wonderful, unique, and supreme university.
Thanks, Natalie, for taking the time to write such a thoughtful response. Jim
Natalie - beautifully composed essay re your experience. Can you tell us about the responses in the job market to your Chapman University degree? I don’t see where you mention your major or career field but could have just overlooked that. I ask because living in Orange I often hear the comment from those in other areas about - “Chapman -you’re joking!” I don’t mean this as a negative response but an interest in your expriences in the job market with your degree. If you’re still searching, Chapman should reach out and pull you into their public realtions office! Again, beautifully written and non-defensive while informative.
@evennow:
I am also a graduate of Chapman University in 2008. Through connections I made at Chapman I was able to land an amazing internship working 1:1 with the CEO of one of the most respected public relations agencies in Dubai. From there I was able to leverage that relationship into an internship/full time position with one of the largest private PR agencies in the US post-grad. To get a job with my corporation is highly competitive and we receive applicants from all across the globe. Needless to say, without Chapman these doors would most likely have never been opened to me. I am extremely happy with my ROI so far in regards to paying Chapman’s tuition, and am on the pathway to what I hope to be a very successful, satisfying, and lucrative career. In regards to your question about response in the job market to a degree from Chapman, I have only heard good things in my experience. True, some may not have heard of Chapman before, but those who have all comment on what a great school they had heard it was and seem impressed.
I do not come from a wealthy background, but my family did make more that 75k during the time I attended Chapman, I was awarded 50% of the TOTAL cost of my education (including tuition, room, meals) for the entirety of my time there in free money…no loans. I think that Chapman does a good job of working with students to make their education affordable, and quite frankly, they out-shined other private universities I had been accepted at. They offered me more than 10k more a year than my local private university which is considered in the same tier as Chapman. I was very grateful for the opportunity Chapman provided me, both during my education and the lasting results post-grad.
I hope that my experience (as an out of state alumni) may help shed some light on your questions above.
Thanks,
Lauren
Chapman University Class of ‘08
Natalie - I am interested in attending Chapman. I too would like to know about the job market opportunities with a degree from Chapman.
I just want to make sure I am making the right decision regarding where I will be enrolling next fall.
thanks,
Mo
Keep in mind that MBA’s took down Wall Street …
Online colleges are the way to go. Coast Community College’s idea of televised curriculum was quashed for many years by the Status Quo for fear of losing their grip on the education industry. The brick and mortar concept worked well during the industrial age but now it is time to implement what should be the norm for the average student. No more crowded classrooms, no more expensive parking permits, no more spending valuable study time commuting on the gridlock or seeking a vacant parking space within a quarter of a mile of your classroom. No campus police and a better choice of instructors rather than the usual brief list of complacent, tenured fossils available for one of your required courses.
I graduated in May 2008 from Chapman and could not be happier. Currently working at Raytheon Corporate HQ in Boston, MA as a financial analyst. The Business and Film schools at Chapman are well respected. Yes Chapman is expensive however I did earn financial aid and now I’m seeing a very good return on my educational investment.
I agree with “Bill”. This is my daughter’s 2nd year at Chapman University. If you are a hardworking student with good grades or talent Chapman is generous is awarding not only grants, but talent awards too! My daughter was considering this school and a UC. After receiving the award letters, her choice was obvious. It was much less expensive to attend Chapman thean the UC school! By the way she is receiving an EXCELLENT education.
MIT offers free tuition to families making less than $75k. In the same ballpark as comparable schools? Chapman is no where near being as good as MIT. Please. Who outside of the OC has heard of Chapman? Has anyone see their course work or campus? its a joke for that kind of money.
-MIT Grad in the OC.
What did you major in at MIT?
Course 22 Nuclear Science and Engineering. I grew up in Southern California and had heard of Chapman but growing up it was never drew attention more than any other local university and so it surprises me that they think they can raise the tuition and then try to justify it instead of building up their reputation so they don’t have to justify anything.
So Shawn, because everyone wants to get to the bottom of if Chapman is worth the money or not, maybe you can tell us how much you spent on your education from MIT (maybe nothing if you’re family was under 75k/yr). Thats the point right?
I’m debating whether or not we should go for fully baked costs or only incurred costs(I’m leaning toward fully baked since variability in personal situations would make relevant comparisons more difficult).
Let’s use first yr starting salary post degree as the baseline. So total cost of education(at full retail value) divided by first yr salary
First yr starting salary will miniize the effect of experience and inflation.
I’ll go first:
UCSD undergrad~60k total cost/45k 1st yr salary=1.33 ratio
Chapman MBA~45k/100k=.45 ratio
Obviously work experience, career earnings, etc isnt taken into account but this causes us to question a more interesting question. How much is too much to invest in your brain (from a strictly economic perspective). For example, I know people that are nearly 300k in debt. Certainly their earnings potential didnt jump between their 2nd and 3rd advanced degree. What are everyone’s thoughts?
Also would be interested to see everyone’s ratios
I can’t believe Skidrow College costs that much - sheesh!
Chapman is a well-respected regional college, but I don’t see how they can compare themselves to schools like MIT, Yale and Pepperdine. No one outside California (maybe the west coast) has ever heard of Chapman.
Does Chapman charge the same tuition at their newly named adult-learner campus, Brandman??? Now that’s a joke.
What’s a joke? And why is somewhere like Pepperdine more “prestigious” in your mind? Because it’s larger? Or because it’s next to the ocean? Please inform everyone of your great wisdom.
For the record my S O went to Pepperdine and it’s a good school, I am not diminishing that in any way. I just want to really understand your comparison and/or mockery.
Doti says, “To ultimately determine comparative costs for colleges, we need to see what other schools give out. I’m confident that if we are able to get those data, we’ll confirm that Chapman is not only the best value (given its quality) but lowest in cost.”
How can Doti be confident of best value and lowest cost if he admits he doesn’t have any comparable data. I think he skipped those classes in logic and ethics.
Please see the end of my letter to Gary in the article where I refer to US News data. Those US News data are adjusted for financial aid. When that adjustment is made, Chapman turns out to be one of 15 “Top Value” universities. Since US News has access to financial aid data that I don’t have, it can make such a meaningful comparison about net tuition costs. Jim
Natalie: You’re referring to information from US News. I’m referring to raw information for a different source.
We’re number 63 We’re number 63. Comon Chapman alumni, Chant with me. lol
Do you really think that with this high tuition and push for elite status that Doti and the gang were going to allow adult students to attend satellite classes and receive a “Chapman University” degree ? It looks like they took a good hard look at their brand and decided that they did not want the name out front with adult students, so in came the big donation, and the new label. It seems like Chapman is really trying to echo the elite programs via a tightening of the brand.
But it goes the other way as well, allowing them to really develop the Brandman name as one recognized and valued among employers and adult students (and alumni), who are mainly the ones it is geared towards. I hear the new Irvine campus is really impressive and hope to have the opportunity to go check it out soon.
There is even more to it than I’ve touched on, but hey who has time to write a dissertation in the comments section!
I hope that Brandman and adult education as a whole succeeds. It was very hard for me as an adult to graduate from a state school; they’re simply not set up to accommodate students like me. However, it looks like more and more traditional universities are realizing that there is a need for adult education. Many business schools offer part time MBA programs, and schools like Pepperdine offer degree programs tailored for adult, fully employed students. Heck, even USC offers a part time, fully employed MBA program. From what I’ve seen, Chapman/Brandman offers more degree choices for undergraduate adults than Pepperdine - at almost half the cost. As long as they maintain WASC accreditation, they will be just fine.
Sarah you made an interesting point regarding the name change of Chapman’s University College to Brandman University. There’s more to this, I believe and is something Gary Robbins should look into as it would make an interesting story. Chapman’s University College is involved in a federal whistleblower lawsuit regarding the former University College. The suit is based on the False Claims Act. It is my understanding the suit is under appeal by the plaintiffs (former Chapman employees). Anyway, the ramifications of such a suit are very serious and it probably was no coincidence that there was a major reorganization of University College and the eventual name change for a donation of $10 million.
I don’t believe any lawsuit under appeals is any driving force for the change, I think there are more important factors than that but wouldn’t mind hearing Gary’s thoughts.
By the way I’ve heard of such lawsuits in the past against other institutions so they’re not necessarily unheard of, but it sounds like the one you’re describing will fail if it hasn’t already.
An expert is a person who tells you a simple thing in a confused way in such a fashion as to make you think the confusion is your own fault.
There probably is a bit of sticker shock involved when people look at the raw dollar amount being charged, but as an alumnus, I also believe Doti knows what he’s doing and the university knows how to make it affordable for the students that really find Chapman is their best choice.
Older, larger private universities actually have some advantages in this department because they have much larger endowments on a per-student basis and nothing to spend them on. Yet even places like Harvard are cutting back on freebies doled out to students.
I attended Chapman University College as an adult learner after post-graduate work at UCLA and was satisfied with the experience and the value of the education product I received. I encouraged both of my daughters to attend Chapman, and my youngest is now in her first year as a film student. I am overwhelmed by the quality of this institution, and I encourage others to explore what it has to offer. As for the arguments over quality, those efforts are a waste of time. The only people the issue has any meaning for are students, faculty, staff, alumni and the parents of students and alumni. I think the vast majority are convinced of the institution’s value and effectiveness.