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State hints at big fee hike for community colleges
June 11th, 2009, 6:37 pm · 65 Comments · posted by Gary Robbins, science writer-editor
Students at Santa Ana College. Image courtesy of SAC
The state Legislative Analyst’s Office (LAO) says in a new report that lawmakers could increase community college fees up to 3 times their current level without greatly affecting enrollment at the schools, which include nine colleges in Orange County.
The report does not recommend a specific increase, but says: “If the state were to increase fees to up to $60 per unit (or $1,800 for a full–time student), eligible students taking 30 units per year would be able to take full advantage of the tax credit—while leaving room to receive some reimbursement for textbook costs.”
The LAO report drew an immediate protest from the California Community College (CCC) system, which said any significant fee increase could have a devastating impact on enrollment, forcing tens of thousands of students to forgo an education.
The report comes about a week after the CCC said that budget cuts that the system is already facing, and additional ones expected to come, could reduce enrollment at Orange County community colleges by 31,500 full and part-time students over the next year.
The new analysis says: “New federal tax credit provisions allow the state to tap potentially hundreds of millions of new federal dollars for higher education. Because these tax credits will fully reimburse most California Community College (CCC) students for the fees they pay, the state could raise those fees (and revenue for CCC) with no net impact on most students. The purpose of this brief is to provide additional information—in a question-and-answer format—related to our recommendation.”
Orange Coast College in Costa Mesa. Image courtesy of OCC.
Dorr added that previous fee increases had led to major declines in enrollment, a claim the LAO report disputes. The report says, “Our analysis suggests that this claim about fees being the sole or even the major cause of enrollment declines is exaggerated. In fact, there are several explanations for the enrollment declines.”
The CCC system operates differently than the University of California and California State University systems. UC and CSU set their own fees (which rose in May.) But the Legislature sets CCC fees.
Other academic news …
- Cal Poly Pomona cancels summer quarter, affecting O.C. students
- UCI freezes faculty hiring as budget cut soars to $55 million
- 31,500 student spots could be eliminated at O.C. community colleges
- How state budget crisis might affect O.C. college students
- UCI endowment — a key source of scholarships — plunges $45 million
- As O.C. public colleges shrink, Chapman grows
- France invests in UCI search for ways to treat psychiatric disorders
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Do you agree with the Legislative Analyst’s Office that community college fees can be tripled without hurting enrollment?
Absolutely not. People are going to look at the fees upfront. They won’t care about the tax credit, which they won’t get back until the next year after filing their tax return. The price of $60 per unit would be enough to scare many away from college.
I do not agree. If you are truely in need, the College will find away. If that is really what you want to do. To just try out and not join the work force; parttime or full time, Military, or Peace Core you canl find away to pay as you go. You are 18 with the rights to vote and be free of your parents. So, act like it and “be all that you can be”. Talk to the School and find out what you can do, do not remain silent and think nothing is out there for you. Go for the Gold! And find out what makes you happy doing a job for probably the rest of your life to you can retire.
“while leaving room to receive some reimbursement for textbook costs.”
Where do they get this? I’ve taken classes and each time I look to deduct the costs of books and materials, the IRS has said “NO”. Textbooks and materials are not deductiable, only actual tutions costs.
Last semester, my Ecology book was $160.00, my Math book $130. while taking 16 units I spent over $600 for USED BOOKS. I returned my books after getting straight A’s, I got about $50. back.
I know it is hard; but, I have five children go through the system all but one has a four year College Degree. One has a Masters. They all worked full time and went to College. I guess we could have afforded to pay but we expected them to work hard and feel like they made it; it was not given to them. One of Our children was working for a Company when they got into upper division classes was lucky enough that because of being a Business Major paid for Tuition and Books. One did get a 50% Tuition Reduction in a Private College. But the rest was a pay as you go. They could live at home for free as long as grades were good and they worked for car, insurance, spending money and cut the lawn.
I once had a very, very person I knew that said: “you only appreciate what you have earned youself”. I didn’t unstand at the time, everyone thought I was going to get a large sum. But guess what I did something small but I know now I was appreciated and loved. My husband and I have earned how retirement and home. We have raised our children the same. They don’t ask for money or a hand out. They haven’t come home. And if God or Luck is in the wind they will not need it. They know how to take care of themselves.
Also, I would like to add I finally got my AA in my 40’s. Most of it was because I didn’t study when I was younger. I was lucky to get a job that required myself and a willing to learn. Also there are alot of jobs out there that pay more than Starting College Grad. Do what makes you happy, you have to work along time. But, if you enough what you do time goes by alot faster.
Last: Always take time for yourself and your family, it doesn’t take money.
And where are all these students going to find these jobs you are talking about? Are you oblivious to the recession? I’m very happy that your life has been just a bowl of cherries but you are pretty out of touch. How about some real-time practical comments or suggestons? I think the repercussions,if this passes, will be huge.
Are you kidding me? The State of California is in a state of crisis. It has been mismanaged for years. Schwarzenegger isn’t the root cause… it was a mess before he took office… but he certainly isn’t the solution either.
Community college is one of the last places you would want to try to “get blood out of a turnip” from.,,good grief. My son is a community college student and hasn’t been able to transfer to State College because it is so impacted. And I am a single parent and struggling along with everyone else. Tripling my sons community college fees would absolutely affect his enrollment.
So I wholeheartedly DISAGREE with the Legislative Analyst’s Office that community college fees can be tripled without hurting enrollment.
I’ll be advise the Governor how to balance the State budget…
What about denying students who are here illegally?
Is it too tough to figure out?
And why are these politicians trying to fix the issues that they caused by making the poor students pay more?
Thanks liberal idiots. You make everything worse every single time since the time I started voting.
It’s those students’ fault too. You guys vote for liberal idiots every single time.
CazhRich: Post in a civil voice, or don’t post at all.
Hey Gary…how do you think CazhRich should have worded his response?? People are pretty ticked right now.
Another thing, how come we have seen any reporting from the OCR about the impact the illegal aliens have had on our state’s financial condition?? Are you guys scared? Is it politically incorrect? Or do you guys just find reporting about Jeana Keough default notices more news worthy??
To Nightsailing: Our comments policy specifically says that people should be civil in their posts. CazhRich went the insult route, calling liberals idiots. It would have been just as wrong to call conservatives or libertarians idiots. You can make a point without being insulting. And I’ve found from moderating two blogs that if you allow people to be hostile, it reduces the number of people who join the conversation. Many readers are afraid they’ll simply be attacked.
On to your second point …
The Register has and does cover the immigration issue.
Gary - your dictating is very insulting and derogatory to me - your tone is very harsh. Who do I voice this complaint to so that they can check into the way you speak to people wishing to express their opinion - whether you like the way they say it or not. Your tone and expression is no different. Please let me know. Thank you.
Kathsmiller: You can speak directly to me if you have a concern about how I handle a post. I follow my company’s written policy on comments. The policy states that readers are to keep a civil tone and not insult others. A reader’s comments also must be on topic. The policy is meant to prevent individual readers from posting rants that insult others or distract people from talking about the actual subject of a post.
Gary - thank you for not allowing me to directly reply to your post - I am starting to get the picture here. I originally came on this post to comment on the subject (I have children in college) but then I saw how you are directly micro-managing the discussion - that in itself is not very healthy. Your response is telling me to speak to you directly about how you handle a post and I thought I just expressed to you how I think you are handling the post. I understand the policy and do not disagree with it - but I am trying to tell you that your handling of the post is not done in a civil tone and the the way you express “your handling” in and of itself is insulting to me but I guess it is all subjective to you - unfortunately that is not very journalistic and that is a shame. Thank you for your time.
Financial aid more than adequately covers tuition at the community college. Even at $60 per unit, it’s still a bargain. Next year I am transferring to a well-known private university and my tuition is going to be about $3,000 per class.
I do take issue about the reimbursement of book expenses. As someone else mentioned, the IRS currently does not allow that deduction.
@Nightsailing
I agree with you, even at 60.00 per unit that is dirt cheap compared to what it costs per unit at a state or private university.
What a joke! Politicians have ruined CA.
this is utterly ridiculous to continue to hurt education, people are trying to go back to school while being unemployed and get training and they will not be able to afford this and when are they going to stop the loopholes in taxes so those that hide their money will pay…. and not those that are most vulnerable…. also do we not want an educated workforce
I am 52 with a large beard and still living at home with mom and dad. I should have stayed in school. Since I don’t have a job or go to school the raise in fees is no big deal for me. Thanks
OMG Ed Simon! Thanks for the chuckle!
Gary, I totally support you in that posters should be civil. And, name-calling! Come on, people…
To the subject… I’ve attended community college in Illinois, and was shocked to find out how cheap community college is here in CA. Frankly, $40, $50, perhaps even $60 per unit would likely be in line with the rest of the U.S.
I think community college has been too cheap. $1800 per year for full time is only $150 a month. How many college students pay at least that much per month for their cell phones and partying? By having a reasonable fee, you will get more students that actually want to attend school and put in more effort. When I went to OCC about 20 years ago, many students dropped out by the end of the semester and didn’t worry about it because they weren’t really out that much money.
This is ridiculous!!!
Many people can not afford to go to college full time as it is. If this goes through a typical 3 credit class will cost $180 not including the textbooks (which usually run between $100-$300)
Our city college may be cheaper than other states, but that is because our housing, gas, etc… is so much higher!!!
Schwarzenegger and the other legislatures do not care that they are ruining our public school system…they send their kids to private school. (which they can afford since they are the only ones not affected by the salary cuts)
I really hope they finally start putting education first, and realize by not doing that they will actually cost the state more money down the road.
for those of you who are complaining about increasing fees… no fee increases = no instructors, = no classessm = no college
You can complain all you want. Below are your options
College:
CC=$1800
CSU=$3800
UC=$8000
Private=$36-40,000
And the opposite impact could be:
High tuition = significant decrease in # of students
Significant decrease in # of students = Decrease in # of teachers needed
Decrease in # of teachers needed = teachers lose jobs
Teachers lose jobs = classrooms sit empty; no money to pay overhead expenses for campus; welfare rolls increase; education becomes a luxury for the wealthy
go to night school. it is cheaper!
How do you figure? What do you mean by “night school?” Classess aren’t cheaper at nighttime are they?
The price is no different between night and day classes.
I agree that a lot of students probably either don’t know how the federal credit works or can’t front the money, but the fact is that if they don’t raise the fees drastically, there won’t be any classes to go to for a lot of those students. I mean, we’re not sure if we can even keep the state open for business in two months. I think asking CC students to learn how to claim credits on their 1040s isn’t too much to ask. And we’d better do it quick before the federal government realizes what’s happening.
Like chm says too, even $60/hour isn’t that far out of line with what they run in other parts of the US anyway.
$60 a unit is still relatively NOTHING, people…
I’m going to Parsons School for Design as a photography major and my parents are spending $65,000 a year for four years (tuition, housing in New York City, food, and photography equipment)
Seriously…
People who take advantage of paying 60 bucks a unit for a couple years before transferring to a university are still getting a HUUUUGE return for their relatively minimal investment.
Try paying your own way, then maybe you will care. BTW, most photographers make lousy money. LOL You won’t be able to send your own kids to school.
That’s nice that your parents can do this for you and it’s nice that you appreciate and respect that. Howver, many students at the community college level do not have that luxury of parents putting up the money. We, in CA, “used to be” very proud of our public educational system and the fact it was available to everyone. Let me ask you a question - with several excellent “schools of design” with a particular focus on photography right here in SOCA (LA, San Deigo, and Santa Barbara), why are you going to school in NYC? Is it for the networking? In closing, I think that you, who are being supported by your parents to the tune of $65,000 a year, might think before giving comment to those who don’t have that advantage. Just my thought.
First of all, I’m paying half of everything….that’s $120,000 of my own money that I will have to pay in 4-6 years after graduating.
Second of all, in CA, there’s only One repectable school for design…CalArts in Valencia…The others you are referring to in San Fran and in Santa Barbara and LA, are a joke. Brooks, along with the A of A in SF, is a for-profit school…they take ANYBODY. I had to work my ass off on my porftolio and had to be interviewed before I got accepted. And yes, the biggest reason I chose Parsons is for the networking.
For people who can’t afford to work and study at the same time….get a student loan? Pay off your debts with the money you’ll be making with a degree?
More victims of greedy firefighter’s and other government employee unions!
Another incredibly STUPID idea from the State!
Oh hush, even with the raised fees, community college is a bargain. So many people want everything for free, or dirt cheap, and the world does not work that way. California is now a welfare state, and that fact is dragging it under. The only way it will change is if the Feds can somehow seize the state government, clean it out completely, and start fresh with a less polarized functional team. Nobody owes you anything, so pay the cheap fees and quit whining.
“Oh hush” you say! OMG!! And you recommend that the “feds” seize the state government and clean it out! We’re in very bad shape with incompetent leadership but that would be like bringing the fox into the hen house! Have you any idea what bad shape the federal government is in at all? “Oh hush” you say. “Stop whining.” Is your middle intitial “A:” for Arrogant?
Perhaps an increase in the fees would lead to more serious students at the CCs. The first week of classes each semester, the campus is packed with no parking. By week 3, the place is empty since a a large percentage stopping coming to class. Maybe if the price was $180 instead of $40, people wouldnt be so quick to drop out.
1) The state collects and keeps all fees from community college students. Any fee increase doesn’t necessarily help the colleges, the community college system or the students in any way shape or form. It’s a money grab to balance the state budget.
2) Even if tripling the fees doesn’t (by some miracle) dramatically reduce enrollment, they will change who attends. Those who are at the lower end of the economic scale will not have the “seed money” required in the LAO’s proposal. It’s like the difference between being able to buy a house with no down payment vs. needing 10% down. The LAO’s plan redistributes students from UC and CSU to community college and students from community college to nowhere.
3) While $60 may be “relatively NOTHING, people…” it is still a cost that is dramatically significant to many, many community college students. There is no doubt that tripling of fees will prevent access to higher education.
To deeper understand the impact, I’d recommend taking a look at this report.
http://www.cccco.edu/Portals/4/TRIS/research/reports/impact_study_18_26.pdf
If enrollment fees are tripled and students decrease by a third, wouldn’t that still be a better situation for the schools? Less students, same amount of money. Less teachers needed, less classrooms, supplies, etc.
I know the thought process of less ‘productive’ people in the workforce… I am just asking from a financial standpoint from the state?
The state pays the colleges based on how many students are enrolled, so fewer students means less money for the college.
I cant believe we continue to pander to the illegals giving them in state tuition rights. Why don’t we start making the illegals pay out of state tuition..It would be a start!
when I first went to community college in novato california, it was dirt cheap, the object was to make sure everyone got a 2 year degree
now, many cant afford it, we can call $60 a unit cheap, but that doesnt make it so
we can blame illegals, we can blame the liberals, dem’s, what have you….people need to wake up and realize california is in serious trouble
we have too mnay people, and too many programs draining the system, raising community college fee’s is just one wya of getting some back
there are two choices, and two choices only………cut the feel good programs, or raise taxes….its a black and white issue
one area I feel strongly about……since local students felt the need to protest to make sure illegals got a fair shake in the community college, they need to pay the out of state tuition fee’s.
actually, they shouldnt be there, but until removed, they need to pay what a visitor from colorado would pay
I don’t agree. If you really want to go to college you will find a way. The money is part of the picture, but not the motivating force. If it is, you really don’t want to go.
for those that still live at home with their parents it might not matter. But for people that pay their own rent and living expenses, the $60 PER UNIT will definitely matter!! Especially since just ONE frickin’ class is 3 or 4 units!
I’m withothers that say that raising the fees will weed out the party-goers from the serious students. Many of the kids at the JC level just treat it as a big high school.
Also, to the poster that said her son can’t transfer because the programs are impacted…I just got accepted to Cal State San Marcos. Only business and nursing are impacted there. You might try a different school if that is a viable option for you.
They should raise fees to $60 a credit. Most colleges in other states already cost much more. It is still a bargain considering what you get. When you price a college education, you must look at return on investment to see if a college education pays. In other words, how many years of work are necessary to pay back your education. There are still financial aid, grants, scholarships and student loans available. Not to mention a part time job to pay for college. I teach a class in the North Orange County Community Colleges system and I think you will like the increase in fees more than you will hate the projected cuts due to a tremendous budget cut.
Someone please check the water at the Legislative Analyst’s Office.
The community colleges in CA are the only affordable education that still exists.
People return to school in a down economy. I guess the state wants to take what little savings the unemployed have left.
As they spend billions of dollars arresting, prosecuting and jailing people for using cannabis, they do this. Where is the logic?
If AB 390 passed, we could easily pay for our kids to get a great education, but we need new leaders too. They will waste any revenues they get from legal cannabis or anything else.
I am currently enrolled at OCC and it is hard enough to get into the classes I need as it is. Classes are over crowded and professors are overwhelmed by their workload. Luckily I work full time and go to school full time so I can pay the fees but I worry about my enrollment in classes for the fall semester with the speculation of reduction in enrollment. $60 dollars per unit is a lot of money when generally one class is 3 units. After you add books into the equation I think many people will find that they will no longer be able to afford the once affordable community college.
I agree. The fee of only $60 a credit is still extremely low, especially when you consider that you can still transfer into UC Berkeley or UCLA after only two years of paying $1800. That is CHEAP! Taxpayers have to find money somewhere and that is a logical choice.
Note that increased fees for community college students won’t be guaranteed to go into the community college system. California doesn’t link these costs together. Does it really make sense to ask our youngest adults to put California’s budget problems on their credit cards? There are no guaranteed student loans for community college students…. so these young folks will have to whip out the plastic and have those charges go straight to Arnold’s corporate welfare programs.
Thank you very much, Gary for the story. You did a good job and it is informative. I am in the process of looking into a junior college at this time for my son. I appreciate the article and the chance to voice an opinion.
Wow!!
I guess the recession is not an issue in Orange County. If you all think that $2000 ($1800+ $200 for books) is not a lot of money for one class…then you all must be doing really well!!
I am a grown up (in my 30’s) that works full time and went back to school to further my career. With salaries being cut, high gas prices, high grocery prices, etc…I have a hard enough time finding the money to pay for one class a semester now. If this price hike goes through I definitely will no longer be able to go to school.
I think the people that say that if you really want to go to school you will find the money are crazy. If people were able to find money as easy as you all suggest, there would not be any foreclosure or hungry people in the world. And before you all jump on me and say that is a huge leap, let me point out that most people’s mortgage payment is very close to that new cost of one class.
I attend OCC and it would cost you about 3,600 dollars to graduate with the 60 required units and get you AA/AS degree.
I spend around 400.00 on books ever semester (sometimes more) so let’s just add on another 2,000 for books.
You’re looking at 5,600 dollars just to get a degree… and I may have under estimated it.
I am a person who feels like EVERYONE deserves a shot at a higher education and affordability makes it possible!
They should have done this years ago. This will weed out the non serious students. I enjoy taking classes at community colleges and every semester it’s the same old thing, at the beginning classes and parking lots are jammed packed but half way through everything is half empty. I feel this will make it easier for the serious students to get the classes they need and move to a four year school much quicker.
People really aren’t getting the point here - the federal tax law has changed. Most saliently, the new AOT Credit provides that:
* The credit now covers books
* 100% tuition etc. is now covered up to $2000/year and 25% to $2500
* 40% of the credit is now refundable, which means that even if you don’t pay any taxes, you can still get 40% of your tuition etc. refunded
The proposal is based on the idea that Cali CC fees are now so low that much of these credits won’t be claimed, so we might as well increase fees because the federal government will cover the increase in the form of tax credits. All that’s required is for students to be smart enough to claim the tax credit. The people who might get the shaft from this fee increase are people who who’ve been in college more than 4 years (though they can still use another lesser credit), people who make over $80k($160k married)/year due to the credit phase out, and in a few circumstances people who pay less than $2k in federal income taxes and who somehow don’t qualify for the refundable credit. And really, as long as the fee increase is under 40%, it would pretty much be break even for people who don’t pay any taxes. If the increase is only 20%, it’s hard to imagine that there’d be more than a handful of people who’d be worse off, and those would mainly be people who are taking a class just for the heck of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_opportunity_tax_credit
Ben: Thanks for such useful information.
will this affect the bogg fee waiver or can low income students still use this to defer the higher costs of classes? if it wasn’t for the bogg i never would have been able to go to college.
Hi Noid. I am not familiar with the Bogg fee waiver, but I’ll look into it.
I would suggest that community colleges charges $120.00 per unit. If the students earn a ‘C’ or better than they are refunded $60.00 per unit. If they earn any grades other than ‘A’, ‘B’, or ‘C’ they get nothing.
“Do you agree with the Legislative Analyst’s Office that community college fees can be tripled without hurting enrollment?”
they can definitely be raised. I don’t know about triple, but during recessions these campuses always see big increases in enrollment so I say, yes they can be raised and enrollment technically won’t really be affected much.
keeping costs low is important, but only within reason. and CC students are still eligible to apply for financial aid if they can’t afford it.
Kathsmiller: I’m not micro-managing the discussion. I’m enforcing the company’s comments policy. It is part of my job. I hustled on Thursday night to get the news about the community colleges posted specifically so that parents and students would be aware of the situation as quickly as possible. And I approved every appropriate comment that came through. I only delete or refuse to post comments when readers are being uncivil or are straying off topic. Lately, many people have been trying to post very hostile remarks. People use words like “moron” and “idiot” to describe others, or they use profanity. That’s not acceptable under the Register’s written policy.
Also, I do not know which specific post you are referring to. You’re suggesting that I was rude to you. But I don’t recall a post from you. I encourage you to resend your remark and I’ll take another look.
The possible hike in community college fees is a serious public issue, and I want to hear as many voices as possible.
Gary