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CSU says it will cut enrollment by 10,000 students this year
November 17th, 2008, 12:01 pm · 65 Comments · posted by Marla Jo Fisher, Staff Writer
I just got off a press conference call with California State University officials, where they announced that they intend to cut enrollment for the coming year from 460,000 down to
Cal State Long Beach
450,000 for the 23-campus system.
They intend to do this by giving preference to these applicants, in this order:
1. Returning students who are already enrolled.
2. Transfer students from community colleges who will be transferring in as juniors or seniors.
3. First-time California-resident freshmen who apply by Nov. 30 and who live within the geographic area of their campus.
In the past, certain crowded campuses had been deemed “impacted,” which meant that students who live within a specific boundary line around the campus area got in first, followed by a second tier of students who live farther away who had to meet tougher criteria for acceptance. Long Beach State and Cal State Fullerton were among two of the impacted campuses to adopt this model.
Cal State Fullerton
Now, Chancellor Charles Reed said he intends to declare all the campuses impacted, after discussing it at a CSU trustees meeting this week. This could affect students who wanted to go to a particular CSU campus for a specialized program, because the campus would give first priority to students within its geographic area, even if it hasn’t been considered “full” in the past.
The point of this is to save money in a state budget crisis that will hit college spending severely.
The biggest impacts are expected to be among lower-income students who wait until later to apply, or who lack counselors to help them get their applications and financial aid in order in time to meet this year’s earliest deadlines.
Also affected will be older students seeking to enter the system who aren’t currently enrolled, if they haven’t completed enough hours at a community college to qualify as transfer students.
By the way, military and veterans are not affected; they will still be given priority registration. Also, Reed said that out-of-state and foreign students will only be admitted if there’s room left over after all the California residents have applied.
He refused to discuss the looming prospect of further student fee increases.
The bottom line: APPLY BY NOV.30th, you have 13 more days!
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Raise the fees and enrollment reduction will take care of itself.
What the heck? You cannot CUT the future of this country !!!
Eli, The community college system will absorb those serious about advancing in college. As to residential requirements, verify citizenship as well. Accept those students with appropriate SAT scores, not by any other criterion. If one is determined to go to Cal State, one will prevail. There are many options.
The CUTS are necessary due to the overenrollment that has been going on for years.
Elijah, the majority of the state budget goes towards education. Unless you happen to have $28 billion in your pocket, there must be some cuts to state-funded education.
Unfortunately for the public colleges and universities in this state, the higher education budget is one of the few areas in the state budget that can be cut at will. That’s why it is always among the most vulnerable in any budget crisis. Expect to see big cuts at the community colleges and UC too. I will be writing more about this in the near future.
Eli, that is approximately a 2% cut, or, 98% retainage of CSU slots. Perhaps we should encourage undergrads to finish in 4 years, with the exception of 5 year degrees such as Architecture, by penalizing students that take 4.5 years or more to finish a basic for year degree.
The CSU system is clogged by underachieving, undermotivated slackards attemtping to stave off the responsibilities of adulthood.
corrections…”FOUR year degree,” and, “ATTEMPTING.”
You cannot penalize people that take longer than 4 years to finish. Some are only going part-time due to work or family obligations. I’ll be transferring to CSUSM next fall, but I’ve already been at the JC level for a long time. I think it’s a good idea to get your G.E. done there first though, so this new acceptance system might help some out financially.
I agree with ‘One who knows’ in that undergrads should be pushed to finish their basic undergraduate education in 4 years. Too many people take up to 8 years in getting a 4 year degree because they keep changing majors, join fraternities/sororities, party/drink, are unmotivated, always try to take the easy way out, and these are the students who get their degree with a 2.0 gpa. Need to find a way to combat this.
REMOVE CHUCK REED FROM CSU OFFICE NOW!!!
This is why I thought ahead and opened-up a 529 Student Investment Plan for my children when they each turned 18-months old. In 16-years, I hope to be able to send them to college without accumulating student loans. My parents paid for my undergrad, and my employer paid for both grad degrees; but alas, I married into a hearty sum of student loan debt. Fyi, Boeing pays 100% of college tuition, plus some towards books, for all full-time employees.
Now I’m curious…. I am an out-of-stater that has been looking at the LA area for graduate schools. Would the preference for California residents apply to graduate students as well? Illinois lacks the green programs that I am looking for in a graduate program.
Penalizing is a suggestion, and it should be applied to those entering directly from high school. The folks attending part-time due to work or family obligations are the exceptions rather than the general rule. Policies cannot be made with exceptions or unique circumstances in mind. I understand that some folks take longer to finish, due to financial considerations or what not. However, the AVERAGE collegian going to college has no incentive to jump into a tough economy, and hangs out for an extra year or two, taking 9 or 12 units a semester, and taking a seat in a classroom that would be otherwise occupied by a more motivated student.
My point is this: if you penalize drawn out collegiates stays, perhaps raising tuition by 20% for schooling beyond 9 or 10 semesters, I believe students would have more incentive to finish on time and with higher grades. This also opens up more seats for incoming students AND part time students.
I got a call from SLO asking me to support lower fees, I said my son at SLO needs 196 to graduate in engineering, and some 1/4 has been lucky to get 12 units. I told them what happens to all the extra money we have to spend for a couple of extra years for food & housing. I say increase the fee’s and lets get back to a 4 or 4 1/2 program, no more 5 and 6 years plans. The CSU and UC don’t care about the additional cost. Lets get a good counsiling programs in the JC’s to get the kids in and out in 2 years or less with no throw away classes and then let them enter the CSU’s. Also lets get rid of the Tenure. If they do a good job teaching they will have a job, but if their bad they should be let go. I don’t want slackers teaching my kids. Like most people we keep our jobs by performance. Should be the same for teachers. Also I hear the CSU presidents are getting paid around $500,000. If that is true cut the pay to $150,000. The president of the United States only get $400,000 and VP $200,000. Sorry for the rant
I can go on and on about how SAT scores only measure how much money and education your family has versus what one actually knows–study sociology. I work both at a CSU and a community college, and I can tell you that assuming community colleges will replace the education one can attain at a Cal State is not true. The winter intersession has already been cancelled at one community college in Orange County. How are these students to get ahead? And let me tell you from experience, One Who Knows, that perhaps the crowd you were around were unmotivated individuals. This doesn’t mean that all students who take longer than four years to finish are trying to avoid adult responsibilities. I teach hard-working students who often have full-time jobs and cannot take a full load, thus prolonging their stay at the university. The “slackards” end up failing out of school pretty quickly because they don’t ever show up to class.
gotta agree with 1.W.K.
I started late going to college. To overcome ignorance growing up in a small town on a farm. It was hard. Okay, I am still ignorant with a degree, not! Anyway, starting at 30 years old, 3 years of night school to finish my AA. Then 7 more years of night school at CSUF. I finished! The thing that makes the USA strong over other country’s is education. They are willing to invest in people that for some reason or another could not go when they were younger. The strength is investing in those with the ambition to do so. I was lucky as a young man to land a good job. However, to retain it, I need education and it has paid off. An ignorate fella like me couldn’t even land gas station job anymore. When was the last time you had someone fill your tank, clean your window, check your oil. A 2% cut is not all that bad, for I believe they were growing a little to fast to begin with.
Also a good way to get some GE and other classes is to have more online classes available. Also allow classes between semester and 1/4 classes and breaks. If your paying rent for a apt or other housing for the year why not go to school year round. By doing this we can hopefully cut the time for food and housing down and save alot of $. Most prople only get 2 or 3 weeks a year vacation, let it be same to teachers
One Who Knows:
Please cite a source for this statement:
“The CSU system is clogged by underachieving, undermotivated slackards attemtping to stave off the responsibilities of adulthood”
Yeah, and where are you going to get the money to pay the teachers to work all but two or three weeks a year? People just don’t understand that teachers are paid for the time they work only, teachers get holidays off, UNPAID.
Only the government cuts services (its clients) to balance its budget.
I know there are constraints to raising fees (the cost of the product), but that is true with any business.
Citibank just announced 55,000 job cuts. It didn’t say it was going to eliminate 10,000 of its customers.
It’s a hard choice, but if every round of budget balancing results in fewer students and not less administration, pretty soon there will be plenty of bureaucrats and no one in the student union.
cutting down enrollment for school? what an idiotic idea//
This is a sad story of our wonderful economy, however there are a lot of other options when it comes to a higher education.
CSU professor:
Sadly, you misunderstood my intent as I was speaking to genralities and specifically noted that my suggestion was targeted at the slackards who muddle around in the CSU system lacking sufficient direction and motivation to achieve a degree within 4 to 4.5 years.
And, let me tell you from experience, as a former Teacher of the Year and current Director of Human Resources, I am very aware of the caliber and character of that enter the CC and CSU systems, and those that graduate looking for employment. And, CSU professor, I graduated from a top 10 university in four years with a double degree, and paid for it with financial aid, working during the year, and saving money from summer jobs. The crowd I was around all accomplished similar if not superior feats.
As an HR Director, there is a clear qualitative difference between the those that attend UC, Cal Poly, CSU, and CC schools…as a GENERAL rule. There will be EXCEPTIONS, and I am certain they will post here, but the quality of candidates in terms of motivation is usually lower as you tend to the latter aforementioned categories.
Interestingly, a number of the unmotivated types from my high school pursued teaching careers at CSU schools and Community Colleges. They enjoy a career where performance has nothing to do with compensation.
Again, CSU professor, thank you for teaching, it is a noble profession. However, I had to leave it because I no longer could tolerate working alongside instructors who made excuses for their students not understanding their subject matter. I am certain you teach some industrious students. However, you must re-read my post and acknowledge that I made a GENERAL statement about the AVERAGE student, not ALL students.
Have a nice day.
Sidney:
My source is the stack of resumes in my files of scores of CSU graduates with a BA in Sociology/Communication/Business that required 5-7 years to finish and a cumulative GPA of 2.4.
Any other questions?
These CSU budget cuts are just terrible!
Beyond just making it harder for folks to get in, they are cutting teachers and other staff! My daughter is in her 3rd year at a Cal State school and is concentrating on her major. But, because of these cuts, there are only TWO classes available next semester. She was on track to graduate in 2010 and now that is doubtful.
This is just sad.
Cut admission to any non US citizens. Cut those with GPAs lower than 3.0. Do you really want professionals who can’t maintain a B average in college?
Amen Dina. I don’t want a professional who can’t maintain a B average in high school or college.
Its and easy accomplishment. No citizenship, no entry, simple and fair, citizens first.
Graduating in 4 years is easier said than done. I attended Cal Poly Pomona and due to difficulty getting into prerequisites for my major, I couldn’t graduate on time. I know plenty of other students that had the same problem.
This is the main reason why so many students take longer than 4 years to graduate. If it takes 2 quarters of petitioning a class before you get lucky enough to register for an important prerequisite, then your graduation will be delayed by 2 quarters.
To One Who Knows:
Kudos to you for graduating from a top 10 university in four years, I would never think to take away from your accomplishment. Therefore, please do not take away from the accomplishments of CSU alumni and then couch that in the phrase “general statement about the average student”. That is a large percentage of the student body that you are unfairly stereotyping. As an alumna of CSU Fullerton, I found it quite demeaning and your attitude rather elitist. Students choose to attend the CSU for a variety of reasons and while you may believe that your position as an HR director give you unique insight into the capabilities of the CSU student, I beg to differ. Unless you have encountered every CSU alumnus who has graduated, then I hardly doubt you are qualified to state that these resumes you mentioned typify the “average student”. Please do not allow your bias to get the better of you.
I was an undergraduate student in the seventies and received my B.S. Degree in March 1979 from a campus at the Northern most end of the state. I did not reside in the immediate area of the campus. (Most students did not, due to its remoteness).
Back then, resident students like me at CSU paid $70 a quarter for 12 or more units (full time student). I had little problem getting the classes I needed to graduate, even if I had difficulty passing a couple of them.
Things have not improved since then, unfortunately. Ever since the Pete Wilson days in the nineties, tuition has increased and increased. Politicians in Sacramento have gutted (and screwed up)what was once one of the best public university systems for residents in the whole country.
California is now an economically troubled state with too many residents, legal and illegal alike (33 million +). Furthermore, California is confronted with chronic budget crisises, forest and brush fires, and very high state taxes and local fees. This will make the future very challenging for nearly all Californians no matter who is in office.
How does this cut affect students who are applying to graduate school??
oh well. Glad I’m done with school.
“I buy things I don’t need with money I don’t have to impress people I don’t like”
Way too many people live this way
I agree with Dina and add that the same should be true of the Universities of CA.
Great, now what do I have to look forward to? More pressure to get good grades and all that stuff!
I agree with “One Who Knows”. It’s been proven time and time again that the introduction of genuine competition into any field forces participants to improve their standards in order to obtain that which they need; that is to say, the creation of corporate competition forces businesses to offer higher-quality services at more reasonable prices in order to keep up with the market. The same logic applies to education; in addition to saving the state money, the cutback will improve the quality of student wandering around CSU campuses, therefore improving the CSU alumni networks, reputation, etc. Now if only we could do the same thing to the teachers… then we might actually be getting somewhere.
ocleanne - For nonprofessional majors (anything in humanities
) absolutely. But with the typical C+ curve that would not be feasible for professional/semiprof majors, where UCs are already tightening their belts every year.
Here’s an idea to go along with the other good ones I have read:
Verify citizenship (legal / ILLEGAL) and residency (in-state / out of state) of each and every student!!!
Cut the multiple levels of college bureaucracy at every college.
get rid of professor tenure! ! ! Some of my professors clearly do not give half a poop about the students, they are just there collecting their FAT checks and benefits… I’m not saying this because I got a bad grade either, I still got an A because I can read the book but the teachers were virtually useless!
GET RID OF THE LAZY, POOR PROFESSORS!
To one who knows
You are totally pathetic! How can you sit there and drag down anybody that pursues a higher education? Do you know how difficult it is to go back to school,years after high school because you had to work/didn’t want to waste time/money when you weren’t serious about school? There are slack offs at every type of school, even Harvard and Yale(daddy’s money has gotten plenty of slack offs in, just ask Bush 1), and yet you generalize CSU and CC students. Who are you to judge when you got through college thanks to FINANCIAL AID! And probably 98% of your education was paid through that. Obviously you weren’t smart or special enough to get any scholarships! Look in the mirror before you go criticizing somebody!
I am in favor of doing whatever is possible to reduce the student body at the CSU schools. Whether it is raising fees, raising qualifications, or slashing budgets, I’m in favor. Hopefully, if the CSU raises fees, it will force the students to take their studies even more serious.
With a 10% cut Im sure qualified students will still be able to get into the CSU system. They may not get into the campus they want to go to, but they will still get into the system. Last year the UC’s were pushing applicants into Riverside and Merced and they still didn’t fill up…I think.
To CSU Alumna/Ph.D Student:
You make my point well.
As part of your studies for your Ph.D., there exists a probability that you must have been enrolled in a statistics course. If so, you must recall that analyzing a REPRESENTATIVE sample of 100 or more from a given population qualifies a sufficiently VALID study. And, the more subjects one measures, the greater the validity. I have interviewed well over 300 CSU graduates alone, as I have also interviewed more than a 1100 from a variety of other institutions of higher education. Therefore, though you may “beg to differ,” you have no real experience or hard data to draw upon. You have only your opinion, a biased and barely qualified one at that.
Regarding the variety of reasons people attend CSU, a very common reason is lack of options regarding school choice. In other words, many CSU students were not accepted to UCLA, USC, Cal, UCSD, Cal Poly Pomona, Stanford, Claremont, UCI, UC Davis, UCR, etc. That lack of acceptance is due to being less qualified for those schools than those who are accepted.
You may bristle at my seemingly elitist approach, but if you are a hiring manager and you have three candidates all with the same GPAs and degrees, one from Stanford, one from Claremont, and the third from CSULB, which two would you hire to bring the most value to your organization? The answer is fairly obvious.
I do not have to interview every CSU alum to have an clear picture of the average student. There are many successful CSU grads, and I do not discount that. However, the issue here is WHY do so many MOTIVATED students need more time to get the classes they need to graduate? Because there are TOO MANY part timers and slackers clogging up the system by taking two classes here, one class there, getting in the way of the motivated students.
That is the problem with public universities. You don’t see this issue of taking 5 to 8 years to graduate at private colleges such as Stanford, USD, or USC. Two major reasons for students graduating in a timely manner from those schools are, 1) they don’t want to pay for another year of high tuition, and 2) they are motivated to get out into the world and contribute. I interviewed students at Stanford this past fall, and the reason 4 of them desired to remain for a 5th year was to get a Master’s degree. These were kids that were playing Div 1 sports and pursuing degrees in Engineering. I rarely witness that level of ambition from my interviewees at CSULB, CSU Sacramento, CSU Fullerton, CSU Chico, CSU San Diego, CSU Humboldt. Why is that, CSU Alumna? Because there is a qualitative difference between the population of students at CSU schools and UC and elite schools such as USC and Stanford.
I agree with Dina. US and California citizens first in our schools. Stricter policies on GPA and allowing students class choices. Increase tuition rates on full time students enrolled in their 10 semester for a four year degree. The fastest way to get people through schools is hit them in the pocket book.
And one more thing, CSU Alumna/Ph.D student: If you “hardly doubt” that I am qualified, do you mean to acknowledge I AM qualified to make my assessment regarding CSU resu,mes? Or are you hardly qualified to effectively express in written form your opinion of my qualifications?
One Who Knows,
my son is studying Fire Arts-Graphic Design at Cal State Fullerton. He has taken at least 15 units per semester and is working part-time.He went in for a grad check last week and found out he has 18 more classes to take after 3.5 years at Cal State Fullerton! That is another full year after the Spring semester! He has a 3.0 GPA and is very disappointed. It would be nice if he didn’t have to work so he could take 18-21 units a semester but unfortunately my husband and I are not wealthy and we are paying for college. He pays his own expenses. We are retired and live out of state for financial reasons, so he can’t live with us and commute to save money. Your idea of a 4 year degree is a pipe dream. Perhaps it’s true for scholarship recipients who don’t have to work during college, but not for working class kids who want a degree to get a good job. Why take that dream away? And by the way, just because someone has a 2.4 GPA does not mean they didn’t study or are poor students. I don’t care what the GPA is when I look at a resume- I care that they have a degree. THAT in itself shows perseverance and determination to accomplish a goal- even if it takes 5 years.
I went to Junior College at Golden West for two years and saved a lot of money and then I transferred to USC…but only because I have so much tuition assistance…
Had I not qualified for the tuition assistance program, my next choice would have been Cal State Long Beach.
Dear Fuming:
Do I know how hard it is for someone to go back to college years after high school? Personally, I do not. As a former teacher, however, I witnessed many lazy, unfocused high school students return to college 3 or more years after graduation because they did not like the responsibility and accountability that accompanies working as an unskilled worker. So, they carried this SAME approach to life to CC or CSU, and continued to drift and clog the system, never really progressing in pursuing a degree. I have a teenager that believes he can just get a GED and he will be fine. I have warned him that he is choosing a more challenging route by quitting HS, as it will be more difficult to get back in the academic swing of things when he does choose to return.
I will make no apologies for receiving financial aid as I earned it by striving to perform at my best while in school. And, I paid back my loans early. My financial aid covered 20% of my costs, and I paid for the rest of the education myself. Perhaps that is another reason why I value it so much. I apologize that I did not make it clear that my financial aid was a partial scholarship due to the school recognizing my achieving National Merit Semi-finalist and graduating 4th in my class. Who am I to judge? I am someone who had the same educational opportunities as those with whom I went to school. The difference was I understood that school and learning and mastery of the subject matter and playing sports and working in the community were all important endeavors, and I had one chance to go through school. This is opposed to ditching school and disrupting class and blowing off homework because I would rather “hang out” with friends because I don’t feel like going to school. Our current CSU system has pandered to the underachievers. When our higher education system has to teach pre-Algebra to freshmen in college, that means we need to raise the bar! Pre-Algebra is a 7th grade course. If we are admitting people to CSU or even CC that have yet to master addition, subtraction, multiplication and division of fractions, we insult the notion of higher education and the significance of a bachelor’s degree.
I applaud those who decide to return to school after a time away from the class. They have chosen to walk a challenging road. However, more often than not, is a course resulting from their own poor choices as a youth. I must add that it is you who are pathetic in defending those who go back later because they weren’t serious about school when they had the opportunity to be serious. It is that lack of seriousness which is the core issue. Perhaps the folks you refer to would not be returning to college later if they had been serious about school from Kindergarten through 12th grade! To many of the youth of today don’t take school seriously from K-12, and then are amazed at the expectations college instructors and employers have when these same HS graduates are now accountable 18 year olds. To those graduates that slacked their way through HS and years later decide to get a degree I say…TOO BAD! You had your chance and you blew it. Go to National or Phoenix or Walden or ITT and PAY for the education. Maybe then our youth will appreciate the opportunities they had as a youth in our inexpensive public education system.
You may fume all you want. But I have earned everything I have, and made the best of the opportunities presented to me.
Have a nice day.
I think there could be a higher standard for students wanting to attend in the traditional sense, on campus in the classroom. Otherwise they could still offer spots to those students that meet the minimum requirements, but their classes would consist of online only for the first year. After this probationary period, if they meet the standards, then traditional classes would be available to them. This would help to weed out the space-wasters that end up leaving anyway. just a thought.
One Who knows appears to be an ELITIST PIGGY.
Being such an educated citizen from a “top ten university” (wow you are SOOO special just cause you graduated from a TOP TEN UNIVERSITY), you should know ITT and their sort are largely diploma mills which are heavily subsidized by the federal government. Tax dollars are essentially being spent to print worthless paper.
Also, if you are such an important and productive member of society working an educational institution, why are you writing responses to such trivial and mediocre postings during what I assume are hours you are on the job (9:11 am and 10:02am on a Tuesday)?
So what if it takes 5 years for a student to graduate, and they do so with only a 2.4 GPA? This is a good thing, considering national HIGH SCHOOL dropout rates between 25%-50%.
The average citizen, who may not perform according to your rigorous standards, needs to be educated, even if only in marketing, in order for them to have a chance to compete in the new global free market paradigm. Perhaps I would not be so upset with your policy recommendations if we lived in a nation that had sane immigration policies, decent wages for the working class, respect for unions, etc.
I am guessing you went through school in the late 1970’s, or early 1980’s. During that time, getting through a public school while working, and without assistance, was really no big deal. Today that’s nearly impossible. Hell, you can’t even get an $8\hr job at some place like Target anymore, and that doesn’t even begin to pay the bills.
In conclusion I would like to let you know I personally know some UC engineering grads who have ended up as cashiers, truck drivers, or are living at home playing World of Warcraft while popping depression medications because the marketplace has been flooded with highly educated immigrants from Vietnam, China, India, etc. I guess it is also not enough a lot of these foreign nationals have been illegally exporting technology sensitive to US national security straight to the Chinese PLA or Chinese state owned firms. Individuals I know with so-called “bogus” majors like marketing or communications are actually ending up employed in desirable industries. Says something about American values.
I could go on and on, but the truth is, that since you have apparently been coddled in your nice little Ivy League environment for the majority of your life, you have no idea how screwed up America is. People like you are part of the problem, and you have no conception of reality.
Lastly, someone distinguished and as able as yourself should have the ability to get your child to stop acting like he is Paris Hilton ( a distinguished holder of a GED). He probably even has a chance at a legacy if he can turn his act around( assuming the top ten school you went to was a private institution). Yes I agree your child is a moron who needs a reality check. Those 2.4 GPA Comm. majors from CSU are a good outcome compared to your child’s desired future.
Have a Great Day
!!!
To The one who knows
I agree with you 100%. My son busted his butt in HS and was offered a schlorship at a private university up North with a 4 year guarantee. My daughter on the other hand slacked off her junior year in HS and is at a JC. You reap what you sow, and the sooner you learn that lesson the better.
Ray, you cannot support such opinions with simple individual examples. There are probably 10,000 cases just like your son who ended up at a JC. It is also nice to know, you left your example totally ambiguous. There are a ton of no name private universities and colleges who give quite generous benefits for mediocre plus performance. I would rather go to a csu or UC, and have to pay for everything, than go to some random private university or college on a full ride.
It disgusts me so much, that so many immediately assume the csu’s and JC’s hold the dregs of the educational system. Many military veterans end up in the csu’s and JC’s because their GI bill will not pay for much else.
I guess that goes back to American values thing though. We shouldn’t even have such a large defense establishment anyway, it has generally been misused, is incredibly expensive to maintain, often does not help America meet its foreign policy goals, and usually creates a more destabilized international environment. Shock ‘N Awe diplomacy is unfortunately timeless American standard.
More federal assistance for public education paid for with increased taxes on One Who Knows inflated Ivy League salary!
I agree with Crustybone,what in the heck is such a busy guy like yourself doing responding to comments during work,”One who knows?” And boy did you set a great example, look at your son!! I guess that’s what happens to people when they spend more time judging others and not enough time focusing on their own problems. Maybe after he gets his GED, he’ll be able to get into one of the TOP TEN universities! Boy you must be proud?? I guess KARMA is a b****!
First of all, To one who knows, I know at least 2 people that graduated from Stanford with both Bachlors and Masters degrees and they had to be forced to get jobs! They didn’t want to work! Just because you go to an Ivy League/UC/Private University,does not mean you’re the most equipped to handle the real world. Also last time I checked, Cal Poly Pomona was in the Cal State system! You seem to have some sort of bone to pick with the CSU system. I wonder if you were actually fired from your teaching job? You seem really bitter and unhappy! Get your facts straight and do your job instead of commenting on blogs!!!
Dear fuming and crustybone:
Did I hit that sensitive funnybone that makes you face the sting of your mediocrity?
I actually had taken the day off today with the flu that has gone around. Hence, my ability to respond during the day.
Regarding my stepson, he set his role model to be his real father, a CSUF grad serving time for drug trafficking. Evidently, I arrived too late in the picture 4 years ago to make enough of an impact.
Yes, Crusty, I am an elitist. I attempt to surround myself with other excellent people that contribute to their community, their workplace, their family in the best ways possible. I am happy the losers will have someone like you and fuming to hang around with when their self-esteem needs a little boost, as they realize they missed opportunity after opportunity to do their best. Just give them a hug, and let them know they should apply to CSU before November 30th.
In my defense, I spent more than a decade teaching Mathematics. At the beginning of each year, my students resented not being allowed to use calculators. I expected them to exercise their minds. Usually after a month, they got over the resentment and felt good about the effort they exerted to achieve something they could not do before. I left teaching because I grew weary of a system that pays superior teachers like I was the same rate as those mediocre teachers that merely gave handouts, showed hours of videos, and graded you for trying.
Perhaps you two are of the mind set that we should be happy that anyone is “trying” to make themselves better. Well, we are not. You alluded to that Crusty, when you mentioned foreign nationals taking technical jobs requiring superior education and mathematical skills. Hmmmm, so you admit that other countries are producing better graduates than the US!! Well, perhaps if systems such as CSU raised the bar higher and required all their students to “achieve or leave,” then more Americans will get the jobs they are too dumb to perform. Those dumb Americans had the chance to learn when they were kids, but chose to waste that opportunity.
Sorry to read how bitter Crusty and fuming are regarding their unfulfilled potential.
Crustybone,
The schlorship was to University of the Pacific, and although he did not chose to go there the opportunity presented itself due to his hard work in HS. He’s at UC Irvine now and is very happy with the choice he made. All I’m saying is that the harder you work in HS the more options you will have for college. You are correct in saying that there are probably 10,000 cases like my sons who ended up at a JC. But that doesn’t mean that that was their only option. Merit based schlorships are out there for the taking, you just have to earn them.
To one who knows
And since you keep mentioning this Top Ten school, why don’t you man up and mention the actual name of the university? Prove how smart you really WERE!! Oh, and you surround yourself with the excellent people in society? I can tell by your mate selection! The ex of a drug dealer and their unmotivated son,hmmmmm. Blame his father,what the hell were you and your wife doing all these years to prevent this from happening? Oh wait let’s see how you try to once again mention the CSU system in your repsonse,idiot!
One Who Knows,
Actually, the foreign nationals hired by US tech companies are often in their late 30’s or early 40’s. They are hired because of their experience, not necessarily their academic performance. It is just a way to squeeze out an even greater margin by not having to train new employees. Its appalling how business has been abandoning their role as educators over the past several decades, and then condemn the educational establishment for not producing graduates with the skills necessary to be competent employees. Business does have an educational role as well. This era of employee importation will gradually disappear as the foreign workforce demanded by US tech companies can find equivalent, or even better employment outside the US. The problem is, no one will be around to replace them, and an erosion of human capital will have occurred.
Another reason a lot of students end up taking 5+ years to graduate is the internship.
I think the problem a few of here have with your statements, and others, O.W.K. is that they reek of arrogance. An enrollment cut of 10,000 will inevitably hurt quite a few deserving students, and the possibility such cuts could drastically enlarge is very concerning. Perhaps you are not a native Californian, or simply fail to understand that the relationship between citizens of California and the UC/CSU systems is something akin to a social contract. If you, as a citizen of California, have met certain prerequisites, it is expected that you will be allowed to enroll in the UC/CSU system. It’s not a free pass, and certain standards to have to be met. Sure, a 2.2% cut in enrollment is not incredibly terrible, and students may not get into their first choice, or they may have to spend a year or two at community college, but what if the cuts double, or triple? You would seem to characterize such an occurrence as “a bunch of average commoner boneheads getting what they deserve.” It’s arrogant, selfish, uncaring, and not unlike the apathetic students you despise.
I’ll concede educators who simply show videos virtually every class period deserve to be reprimanded, and forced to change their unsatisfactory method of instruction. I’ll also agree that the “slacker” phenomenon is pervasive and malicious, but it is not a symptom of some widespread inheritance of an idle demeanor. Create a work-study program available to everyone. Provide an incentive like guaranteed employment if certain criteria are met. Do not categorize hundreds of thousands of students as loafs, imbeciles, and criminals.
Finally, the info you reveal is quite entertaining. I am particularly curious, for what industry or company are you a hiring manager? I am assuming this one of the responsibilities of a “Director of Human Resources,” taking into consideration you stated you review resumes or some sort of application. Do you work in finance?
Ray,
Earn them, know where to look, and often demonstrate some sort of minority or disadvantaged status, or both. Not that long ago, a fellow classmate, who, academically was of the same calibre as myself, got a significant scholarship to attend MIT. True he largely earned it, but the main reason he received such a large amount of assisatance (think tens of thousands of dollars) was because he claimed to be a disadvantaged Latin American. He was whitier than the stereotypical “pale male,” and his last name was not even Spanish. On top of that he lived in a VERY exclusive area, and his father was a well known businessman. I think today that sort of thing may be less common, the vetting process might be more stringent, and now I know that it is even possible to alert admissions officials of possible disceptive of fraudulent activity.
If the CSU was only allowed to enroll students who didn’t need remediation, we could probably close 5 campuses…..
one more thought …I’d like to know how many applicants gained admission based on an exception… that would be very interesting! we should ask the state to take a look at this and see if the demand is real don’t you think…
This thread has gotten a little off topic. I’ll just say that raising the bar is not a bad thing. Our public school system(K-12) has taken the approach that a students self esteem is something that can’t be messed with. I say hold a student accountable and prepare them for the real world.
Crusty:
I believe you asked me to identify my alma mater. I believe you need not know, but must trust my truthfulness, as you expect me to believe yours.
In any case, I was impressed with your elevated language in your last post, attesting you have fine mind.
However, you misspelled deceptive.
You and I differ on core issue. I believe you should earn your place, you believe CA should give away seats in colleges.