Orange County Register

 40 Comments

• Karen M says:

  May 18, 2008 at 6:54 pm

  Dear Ann,

  I read your blog entry and you asked why elderly people (50 to 60 year olds) would want to take college classes. I will try to answer this for you.

  First of all, let me state that I am 54 and do not yet consider myself elderly. But that is just my opinion.

  I am sorry that these elderly people are being excruciatingly annoying. I know what a pain I can be myself. I am on oxygen and I hold people up all the time waiting for me to pull my oxygen cart through the door.

  In retrospect, I know of a span of approximately 12 years where my children and many other peoples children are also annoying. Trust me, every age is going to annoy somebody.

  From 0 to 18 you annoy your parents. From 18 to 40, you annoy your children, from 40 to 70 you annoy your grandchildren and those college kids and after 70 you start annoying the caregivers.

  But getting back to your original question, in the past 4 years since I turned 50, I have taken a Microsoft web design course and received my certification with a final grade of A+, and I wrote and published my first novel. I have just started a web site to offer free research to those that either have limited access to a computer or do not know how to research.

  I am 54 and may not be around in 5 years because of my illness but if I were offered free tuition to law school, I would be there in a heartbeat. I have an IQ of 135. I am not bragging, for 135 doesn’t make me a genius, but I am smart enough at the ripe old age of 54 that I don’t know squat.

  The day you start to become intelligent is the day you realize you still have a lot to learn and I applaud anyone of any age that keeps learning. There is an old saying that if you don’t use it, you lose it. I want to keep my mind. I want to keep it cobweb free. I refuse to let dust settle on it.

  That my dear Ann, is why us old folks go back to school.
• Marla Jo Fisher says:

  May 18, 2008 at 7:55 pm

  Dear Ann,
  Well I am over 50 and so I guess in your book I qualify as “elderly.” I will have to start looking for my cane, though due to my poor eyesight I might have trouble finding it.
• Steph Waller says:

  May 18, 2008 at 8:57 pm

  Time passes quickly. I hope you remember that you wrote this in about 30 years.
• Student of the Revolution says:

  May 18, 2008 at 10:31 pm

  I completely agree with you. I would much rather have a young, naiive freshman straight out of high school sitting next to me trying to make the whole class laugh with references to the whiteboard marker sounding like flatulence than a person of advanced years who is in class to, get this, learn.

  Holy crap! A college student that asks questions when they do not understand something and require clarification. What are they trying to prove? I realize how ridiculous this is considering the fact that it is impossible that someone else was also confused about the subject matter and benefited from the elder student’s questioning.

  But no, you’re in the right here. Old people have no purpose in life. Everyone over 55 should just be mashed up and turned into the world’s new food supply. We can call it “Soylent Gray.”
• Ronni Bennett says:

  May 19, 2008 at 2:37 am

  First, Ann, let’s get the language straightened out so we can have a reasonable discussion of your complaint: “elderly” implies frailty and decline which does not describe most 50- or 60-year-olds.

  I prefer the word “elder” to describe old people, which I frequently use on my blog about “what it’s really like to get old”, but others are happy with “senior.” “Old” or “older” will do fine too. But let’s keep the word “elderly” for people who are frail and who, by the way, do have as much right - if they are capable - of taking classes as you do.

  Learning, as I hope you will discover, is - or should be - a lifelong process. Motives for going back to school at 50 or 60 or even 70 and beyond are many, depending on the individual.

  Perhaps the elder students in your class went to work young to help support their families. Maybe they or their families did not have the economic advantages you have and could not afford college in their youth. Or perhaps they are just curious. Curiosity is a good thing.

  Most, at 50 or 60, have been working for decades to raise their families and put their own children through school. Perhaps now, they want to understand the application to math in daily life that they didn’t have the time or resources to pursue during the years they, undoubtedly like your parents, were busy preparing their children for adulthood.

  As to the elders’ questions that cause you to bang your head on the desk, it would be a good idea to learn young that there is no such thing as a dumb question and I’m willing to bet that some of the people in the class who are your age needed those answers too.

  I do understand that some young people find old people boring and think they should just disappear. It’s hard to believe that the old have the same rights as the young when, from the cradle, our culture teaches us that youth is the gold standard of life.

  Everywhere we turn, old people are depicted in the media as dotty and none too bright, sick and unattractive. Every second television commercial is about a product to erase wrinkles and many of the rest are selling remedies for ailments that afflict - or so they say - only old people. But don’t you believe it. People of all ages get headaches, indigestion and constipation.

  So I think it would be a good idea to take some time to sit back, Ann, and look at the bigger picture. Learning is a good thing at every age and mixing generations in the classroom is a good way for us all to get to know one another better.

  You asked why these old people would take such a class and suggest they are just bored in retirement. I doubt it, but one way to find out is to fulfill your curiosity by asking one or two of those old people why they are in the class. The answer could surprise you and you might even make a new friend.
• joared says:

  May 19, 2008 at 4:32 am

  Perhaps anyone who doesn’t value being older doesn’t understand what the alternative to growing older is. Everyone, if they’re fortunate, will be old one day. Fear of aging does cause some people to make irrational statements about the process which begins at the moment of birth..

  My reply to Ann:
  Ann, you ask why older people, fifty or sixty years of age, would want to take general education classes. There are a multitude of reasons as to why we Elders (someone fifty years or older) might want to do so, including the one you mention of just “wanting something to do.” I think very few Elders take classes for just that reason, however.

  There are known benefits for stimulating our brains with learning (academic, physical skills) to facilitate mental growth. We’re also possibly limiting the effects of mental deterioration with such learning during aging, from birth to death. Increasingly scientific studies are showing the importance of challenging our brains with new information, different for each of us, especially as we get older. These are significant reasons alone for older students presence in your class.

  Life is much more interesting if we consider our existence to be a life-long learning experience. Some people of all ages really enjoy constantly learning new information whether it’s how to use a computer, an iPod, creating a blog for which they write, solving math problems, exploring artistic skills, or taking academic college courses. Consider, too, these possible reasons for taking general education, or other classes, to name just a few:

  need to obtain a 4 year college degree for:
  present job advancement
  re-training in a new career voluntarily
  present employer is going out of business
  job is being outsourced
  job is eliminated due to new companies combining, reducing work force
  older worker released from job surreptitiously, but due to ageism, with a need for continued income, insurance for health care — must retrain (this sort of unofficial discrimination can occur beginning around age 40 yrs)

  fulfilling a goal for higher education postponed in youth as
  unable to attend or afford classes due to family obligations
  (caring for children, caregiver to infirm parents)
  didn’t see importance of higher education when young, so didn’t seek it then

  present work unsatisfying and desire to train for profession requiring degree

  sudden life situation change with breadwinner spouse for reduced or no income due to wage-earner’s permanent injury, disease, death, divorce, family abandoned — remaining spouse must work (maybe with children in college needing help)

  desire for employment skills with potential for earning more than minimum wage

  realization at older age a person’s savings is (or will be) inadequate for retirement, or the higher cost of living is such (think about how the price of gasoline has increased) the older person may have to go back to work to pay for living expenses, increasing health care costs. They may want to seek work specifying educational requirements they didn’t previously have.

  desire to train academically to engage in social work to benefit the community though comfortably situated with retirement income and health care coverage

  We live in an aging country and an aging world. Life expectancy in the United States is increasing. People are also more alert, active, capable into their older years. They either need or desire to work longer.

  As the age group to which you refer leaves the work force there are fewer young people left to replace them in the work place. Population research studies show there will be a shortage of workers in the U.S. Eventually, the government and businesses are going to have to accept older workers, facilitating re-training, education, taking a much more active roll in eliciting them to re-enter the work place if we hope to maintain an American workforce in the United States.

  Some older workers want to be part of that workforce, but, perhaps in a different capacity than what they previously had. Even if they thought they would have adequate retirement income, some have had their pensions unexpectedly reduced, been told their health care coverage would actually be eliminated when they retired — at least one major world-wide company in today’s technology business that I know of did this a few years ago — so some of these older workers may be seeking more general education for degrees they never had.

  Just as there are probably young people in your class, Ann, “who sometimes don’t completely understand what’s going on,” I’m not surprised some of your older classmates don’t either. I make this observation from the experience of having returned to Calif. State Univ. at Fullerton as an older student some years ago.

  I deliberately made an effort to not speak up excessively in class as did most of the few other older students in my program. Later we older gals were surprised and pleased when some of the young students spontaneously told us they really thought of us as “just one of them.” Unfortunately, there were a couple of other older students in my classes who unintentionally alienated younger students and me, by some of their excessively frequent inquiring questions, or persistent life-experience sharing.

  I did ask questions, occasionally, (but apparently not objectionably excessively,) and recall being told by young students after one class, “I’m so glad you asked that, as I didn’t know, but didn’t want the instructor to think I was stupid.” One advantage for me with being an aging student was some of the fear, such as appearing stupid to the instructor that I might have had when younger, no longer intimidated me.

  So, maybe your instructor indulges the annoying questions you mention because of the possibility there may be more young students who don’t understand either, but are too embarrassed to say so. Perhaps you could bring up the matter in class, or privately with the instructor, as to whether or not there were enough people (by show of hands) who would like to spend time in class on the answer to such basic questions. If not, you might ask if the instructor would want to tell students with such questions they might better seek the answer privately, after class, or during instructor’s office hours. Maybe your question or concern would motivate your instructor to determine the solution in terms you seek, if that’s what’s best for the whole class.

  These older generations do want our younger generations to have life opportunities and the prosperity for which our country has been known. I believe in the future it will be especially critical for all generations to work together toward making that goal happen. This is quite a different world than any of our ancestors ever experienced.

  (Note regarding aging terms: The term “elder” as I use it, refers to anyone 50 yrs of age or older. The meaning refers to a respected individual demonstrating knowledge and experience valued in the community. “Elderly” refers to only a segment of individuals since the implied meaning most people commonly understand is one of feeble, decrepit, weakened condition. Care must be exercised in describing older people, elders, as elderly.)
• Sherilynn (Shear Madnez) says:

  May 19, 2008 at 9:19 am

  Right before she turned 80, one of my customers earned her G.E.D. This was after she’d raised children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, and helped our “village” raise their children. This was also after she’d battled cancer and won.

  After earning her G.E.D., she went on to college. Why? Mainly because there were goals she’d set for herself.
  Another is because she still works in community service 20-30 hours per week and needed to keep up with ever-changing technology.

  She graduated in the top 10 percent of her class. Instead of her classmates whining about the questions she asked during her math class, they came up with a new concept. They HELPED her. In turn, she taught them to clean their dorm rooms properly, make better use of their “off” time, she taught them how to use their minds instead of a computer, and she expanded on their knowledge of history–many times offering a firsthand perspective.

  Sure, there were one or two students like yourself that were “extremely annoyed” by her presence in the classroom. Instead of distancing herself from those students, she set another goal…to make friends with them. It was a struggle, one that I probably wouldn’t have bothered to tackle. She, of course, succeeded and gained two more friendships.

  We should all be so lucky to achieve our goals and dreams. Why don’t you help “hey Grandma” with her math instead of being annoyed with her? Pay it forward. You’ll feel better about yourself. Maybe there are things that “hey Grandma” could help you with in return.
• Nancy says:

  May 19, 2008 at 9:32 am

  There isn’t much I can add to the comments already posted, other than that if I was taking a college class, it would be to learn something new, either to advance in a job, or find a new career. I also object to your use of the word “elderly” to describe someone in their 50s and 60s. You don’t understand elderly until you have to help your parents walk, because at age 90 their legs just don’t go anymore. Be grateful you have the “elderly” around, because without them, there wouldn’t be any YOU.
• Smed says:

  May 19, 2008 at 10:10 am

  Learning is lifelong. I’m 42 and am always wanting to learn more and more about anything and everything under the sun, and I hope to pass that along to my daughters.
• Michael S says:

  May 19, 2008 at 10:26 am

  Ann, I’m not quite up to your definition of elderly, since I’m only 46 right now. If you were able to look beyond your own brilliance, you’d recognize what an opportunity to have to learn from people who have been making their way in the world since before you were born. At your age, I was certain I had all the answers. A few years down the road, and I’m not even sure I have all the questions.

  I agree with you that applied math may not be the most intellectually challenging course out there, but that’s because I’ve been working in financial services for decades and *see* it being used every day.

  By contrast, one of my nieces and my nephew don’t understand why they need “all that math stuff” because they don’t intend to be in a math-oriented field. The future auto mechanic doesn’t understand how he’ll be doing conversions between metric and standard for the rest of his life. The future social worker doesn’t understand that she’ll need to help people reconcile their lives temporally, financially and otherwise, not to mention being cognizant of medication doses.

  I say all this to help you understand that, as others have said, some of your classmates may have the same question but be afraid to ask. Or perhaps the elders in your class just really want to learn because it’s not a given that they’ll be given a college education.

  Regardless, your post intructs all of us that you have a lot to learn. Just perhaps not as respects applied math.
• Ashley says:

  May 19, 2008 at 10:42 am

  I’m your age, Miss Austria. I’m 20 years old. That being said, I have NO problems whatsoever with seeing older people (those in their 40s, 50s, 60s and even older) in my classes at my college.

  This semester, I sat next to a woman who was in her fifties in one of my classes. She was my mother’s age. And I talked to her like she was somebody my age. I treated her like a peer. I’ve always been an open-minded and accepting person. She was a nice woman, why should I roll my eyes at somebody 30 years my senior who is at college to, wow, here’s a shocker, to learn. I’m at college to learn, and to get a degree. And so was she.

  I honestly believe that education and learning is a lifelong process. I want to learn all the time. Why should I, when I’m fifty years old, not go back to college when I want to learn MORE just because on the off-chance that it might annoy some snot-nosed person just out of high school? Are you kidding? If I wanna learn more, I am going to learn more! I’ll spend my whole life learning more.

  And, as Mr. Waller said above, I hope that you remember that you wrote this thirty years from now.

  You make me feel ashamed to be call myself a young person.
• zipper the wondercat says:

  May 19, 2008 at 12:20 pm

  you need to mind your manners and respect your elders, and you need to sit down and speak when spken to, until you obtain the maturity to speak out and voice your opinion properly. you have insulted 75% of the US population. now, go lay down and rest your neck.
• Shippie says:

  May 19, 2008 at 2:23 pm

  I concur with all of the comments- well stated! And no, I’m not “elderly” yet as I’m I’m just nearing 39….perhaps I’m just an “old fart” in your terms? One thing I can add to this is what you HAVE made evident is simple: YOU my dear, have a LOT to learn. I hope you wise up and pay attention.
• Daniel says:

  May 19, 2008 at 3:30 pm

  Ann, undoubtedly you will be inundated with harsh responses to your rather unsavory and utterly myopic commentary. Suggesting that “elderly people” (50 - 60) have a more difficult time comprehending than younger folks is just as ridiculous as someone claiming that Asians aren’t as bright as Caucasians. Your premise borders the absurd. I truly hope that time and life experiences temper your judgmental attitudes.
• Karyl says:

  May 19, 2008 at 5:27 pm

  The day a person stops learning is the day a person stops breathing.

  I myself earned a Bachelor’s of Science in Computer Science from the College of William and Mary. You may think I would be finished with my schooling, but once my children are a little older, I would love to go back to my Master’s of Library Sciences. Even when I have my Master’s, I can see myself taking classes in art history, in photography, in archaeology, in anything that may strike my fancy. My husband is taking classes towards his Associate’s while working full-time for the US Navy because he did not have the opportunity to go to college straight out of high school. His parents could not afford to send him, and he chose to join the miliary and set his career in motion instead.

  I am just 29, but I know to value my elders, whether they be 35, 55, or even 85. There is much that we young people can teach them, but there is so much more that they can teach us. It would behoove you to remember that, especially when you are “elderly” by your definition and treated with disdain and contempt by those who are in their 20s.
• Miss Hiss says:

  May 19, 2008 at 7:03 pm

  If they’re 50 to 60 and having so much trouble keeping up with you really cool kids on something as modern and contemporary as Pythagoras (and presumably they’ve long forgotten the Scarecrow’s song from “Wizard of Oz” AND the Major-General’s song from “Pirates of Penzance” AND all the more recent references in things like “South Park” and “Simpsons” — but do google the first two, Ann, because they are both at least, oh, 50 or 60 years old so you won’t have a clue about them either — my only guess would be they’ve lost all their brain cells in the 1960s enjoying a hedonistic lifestyle where all they did was drop out of school and smoke dope, drop acid, eat magic mushrooms, swallow peyote and practice free love. Oh, and possibly they’re a little tired from expanding their consciousness while simultaneously bringing an end to segregation, ending the Vietnam War and championing the causes of feminism, gay rights, abortion rights and the environment decades before you were even born. Cut the poor old dinosaurs some slack, Ann. Maybe they’re just too feeble and fossilized to do anything productive and worthwhile any more, so they’ve started cottage industries making teddy bears (for insightful and mature 20-year olds to pose with cutely in photos and take to their college math lectures to bang their heads against, you know) and have to try to work out in their addled old brains the ratio of how much faux-fur fabric to thread to plastic eyes they need to buy. (And, incidentally, Lord Sebastian Flyte carried Aloysius around in the 1940s and John Betjamin carried Archibald Ormsby-Gore around Oxford in the 1920s — oops, you’d better google them too, Ann, because that’s, like, YEARS before you were born and you’re bound not to know anything about them either. But re the bear: You need a new affectation, sweetheart, lest anyone think you’re derivative or — worse still — OLD.)
• boxx says:

  May 19, 2008 at 9:03 pm

  I started university from BELOW scratch at age 42 (on my OWN dime and time) and finished within 5 years with a 3.8 GPA while working full time and supporting my two children. I have a 70 units past a BA in Liberal Arts with minors in studio art , art history and career arts management. I’ve taught every grade level pre-school thru university level. I have NO prejudice towards the age of ANYONE, but I do have to admit that ignorance does IRK me. Grandma? Why YES! I am looking forward to becoming a grandma by year’s end. BTW, I run 7 miles every day at a 12 minute pace. Best of luck with that basic Math class you’re taking at the JC and I hope those ELDERLY people don’t slow down your fast track to success.
• Kathy says:

  May 19, 2008 at 11:08 pm

  I am only 17 and somehow stumbled upon this blog entry in which I think is ludicrous, and not to mention, disrespectful. The responses are outstanding, and I love to read what everyone has to say, especially the elders.
• Anne says:

  May 20, 2008 at 5:21 am

  Perhaps a classic case of “youth is wasted on the young”? I am however encouraged by the young folks here speaking out against this all-too-common opinion. Good fortune to you in your future endeavours, at whatever age!
• Claude says:

  May 20, 2008 at 5:40 am

  Hey sweetie, what’s the name of you teddy bear?

  Yes, I know, not very nice, but just as silly as your whole post.
  Because you are posing with a teddybear doesn’t necessarily mean that you have as much maturity as a child, but the tenor of your post does.
  Hopefully you will grow up one day.
  Grandma from France
• Marian Van Eyk McCain says:

  May 20, 2008 at 6:01 am

  I got my first university degree at 40 and started a whole new, professional career. At 53, I got a Master’s degree and since then I’ve had three books published. At 72, I’m writing another book, editing a magazine, building websites and learning something new every day. Why do people over fifty go to college? To acquire new knowledge, that’s why. Duh!! You might try asking your teachers who they most enjoy teaching: motivated, mature students who love to learn - and who ask questions b/c they want to make sure they really understand concepts, rather than just rote learning to pass exams - or shallow-minded youngsters whose idea of a good class is one that doesn’t ‘require too much thinking’.
• Nancy B says:

  May 20, 2008 at 6:22 am

  Ann, the one thing you obviously have not yet learned, is that the human being is a vital part of life. As with good wine, as it ages, it gets better. That being has a brain that is contained in a hardened block of bone to protect it. The brain absorbs knowledge; it also synthesizes emotions; it matures with age and it never stops absorbing knowledge. Most human beings learn something new everyday. In order to do that, one has to be open to learning and recognize that life is filled with new and wonderous things. Occasionally, for many medical reasons and some emotional ones, the brain can no longer absorb new. I pity you Ann, that you are of the latter denomination because not accepting that all human beings are capable of learning new, that NOT all human beings know everything, and that to question is to learn. I pity you because you, if you continue on in this way, will never gain wisdom which is an incredible sense of being that can never be lost, but it takes years to acquire.It must be a terrible burden to know everything at such a young age. By the way, age as nothing to do with being annoying. It’s about personality and the person.

  Here’s a litte something to help you learn. It was annoymous, perhaps an old soul or maybe even a young one. Whatever, it’s a common sense approach to living life. I hope you read it.

  I’ve learned -that you cannot make someone love you.
  All you can do is be someone who can be loved.
  The rest is up to them.

  I’ve learned -that no matter how much I care,
  some people just don’t care back.

  I’ve learned -that it takes years to build up trust,
  and only seconds to destroy it.

  I’ve learned -that it’s not what you have in your life
  I’ve learned -that you can get by on charm
  for about fifteen minutes.
  After that, you’d better know something.

  I’ve learned -that you shouldn’t compare
  yourself to the best others can do
  but to the best you can do.

  I’ve learned -that it’s not what happens to people
  that’s important. It’s what they do about it.

  I’ve learned -that no matter how thin you slice it,
  there are always two sides.

  I’ve learned -that it’s taking me a long time
  to become the person I want to be

  I’ve learned -that it’s a lot easier
  to react than it is to think.

  I’ve learned -that you should always leave
  loved ones with loving words.
  It may be the last time you see them.

  I’ve learned -that you can keep going
  long after you think you can’t.

  I’ve learned -that we are responsible for what we do,
  no matter how we feel.

  I’ve learned -that either you control your attitude
  or it controls you.

  I’ve learned -that heroes are the people
  who do what has to be done
  when it needs to be done,
  regardless of the consequences.

  I’ve learned -that learning to forgive takes practice.

  I’ve learned -that there are people who love you dearly,
  but just don’t know how to show it.

  I’ve learned -that money is a lousy way of keeping score.

  I’ve learned -that my best friend and I can do anything
  or nothing and have the best time.

  I’ve learned -that sometimes the people you expect
  to kick you when you’re down
  will be the ones to help you get back up.

  I’ve learned -that true friendship continues to grow,
  even over the longest distance.
  Same goes for true love.

  I’ve learned -that just because someone doesn’t love you
  the way you want them to doesn’t mean
  they don’t love you with all they have.

  I’ve learned -that maturity has more to do with
  what types of experiences you’ve had
  and what you’ve learned from them
  and less to do with how many
  birthdays you’ve celebrated.

  I’ve learned -that you should never tell a child
  their dreams are unlikely or outlandish.
  Few things are more humiliating, and
  what a tragedy it would be if they believed it.

  I’ve learned -that your family won’t always
  be there for you. It may seem funny,
  but people you aren’t related to
  can take care of you and love you
  and teach you to trust people again.
  Families aren’t biological.

  I’ve learned -that no matter how good a friend is,
  they’re going to hurt you
  every once in a while
  and you must forgive them for that.

  I’ve learned -that it isn’t always enough
  to be forgiven by others.
  Sometimes you have to learn
  to forgive yourself.
  I’ve learned -
  that no matter how bad
  your heart is broken
  the world doesn’t stop for your grief.
  I’ve learned -
  that our background and circumstances
  may have influenced who we are,
  but we are responsible for who we become.

  I’ve learned -that it’s hard to determine
  where to draw the line between being nice and
  not hurting people’s feelings and standing up for what you believe.
• ian says:

  May 20, 2008 at 6:54 am

  You ask: “why a group of people ,who look to be between fifty and sixty years old, are taking an undergraduate general education course”

  Short answer: because they want to. Once accepted on the course it is their business not yours.

  Longer answer: Karyl above has it - the day you stop learning is the day you might as well turn to face the wall and die. I have no intention of doing that. I started a whole new career in my late 50s and I have no intention of giving up - I am having too much fun.

  I have a question for you too - why as an undergraduate are you doing a course that doesn’t make you think? If you already understand what’s going on - why are you there?
• Kay Dennison says:

  May 20, 2008 at 7:31 am

  Ah, the arrogance of callow youth!

  Anne dear, you are in for some rather large surprises in the next 30 years. I’m wondering, given your current nasty attitude, how you’re going to take it when someone bashes you because of your age when you hit your 50s.

  I can’t add to what has been said so eloquently by those who have already commented here. I only hope that you heed their words and open your heart and mind to the “elders” in your classes. Who knows? You might learn something!
• Alice says:

  May 20, 2008 at 12:59 pm

  Ann, there have been far more outstanding responses to top anything I might come up with this far down the line, but I just want to echo the prior commentor, Kay, who points out rightly that you have some big surprises in your future. Before you know it, you’ll be there, too. For your sake and what’s his name of the soylent gray comment, I hope everybody wises up about what aging is: in a word NATURAL and everybody who isn’t six feet under will get there eventually. When you do I hope you’re really ashamed of yourself.
• naomi dagen bloom says:

  May 20, 2008 at 4:46 pm

  as you can see by some of our responses, ann, we elders suffer from a common malady. we have a lot to say. that’s probably the result of being around for some time, had a number of experiences, done a lot of thinking about issues other than ourselves.

  of course, i’ve been in classes with young people who go on and on to the point where i just want to scream. perhaps there’s a new educational institution you have in mind and could promote. a kind of high school for those not ready for prime time?
• stacie says:

  May 20, 2008 at 8:02 pm

  Ann,
  I went to college at 26 and graduated at 30. I had an elder woman in several of my classes, and she became a great friend of mine. She was smart and had a lot to contribute to our class. She wasn’t bored with retirement. She was 85 years old and she contributed more to our community during her ‘retirement’ then I am betting you are while you are young and energetic.
  Don’t you have a grandmother or anyone that is older then 50 in your life? How can you be so prejudiced against an entire segment of the population? The old saying, “Youth is wasted on the young,” has just been epitomized by your post.
  Maybe go visit the sociology department…you definitely need a ‘basic’ class there.
• cassie says:

  May 20, 2008 at 9:28 pm

  I would just like to add, to the wonderful comments above, that these “elderly” people have already been your age. Now they want to be something better.
• Nikki says:

  May 21, 2008 at 2:50 am

  “what are their motives for taking a class like this?”

  You’re asking US?!?!? YOU’RE the one sitting there in the classrooom with them!! Why don’t you ask THEM????????????????
• Suzie says:

  May 21, 2008 at 11:02 am

  And you call yourself a journalist? Read the comments, darling. These “elderly” people can write you under the table!
• Claudia says:

  May 21, 2008 at 11:54 am

  Hello, Ann, by this time you’re either mortified to death, or have blown us all off. “Us” being the soon-to-be majority of the entire world. Were you surprised at this avalanche of comments? Journalistically speaking, did it give you an entirely fresh perspective from which to approach a writing exercise?

  If so, if you are still serious about pursuing journalism, here is your next writing assignment: “What I learned when I published a clunker of a post without examining the issue with a professional journalist’s skills and tools.”

  I would bet that if you interviewed each of the people who commented, you would have the material to craft a highly intelligent, eye-opening expose on ageism that any newspaper (or publishing house) would be proud to publish. And it just might add to the general good of the community.

  I look forward to the blossoming of your career–as an informed, thoughtful, and non-biased journalist. How lucky you are to have this profoundly life-changing opportunity. I volunteer to be your first interview.

  Best of luck in your studies. Keep in touch. I’ll be Googling you from time to time to see how you’re doing.

  Claudia (62, contracted music blogger, 154 IQ, undergrad in flute performance/musicology at 32, graduate perfor/musicology at 36 as a single parent, writes about IT for university faculty, learned BaseCamp and Photoshop in the last 8 months, team leader for information and Web design group, Director of Communications for an opera company, traveled and lived abroad, singing on tour through Eastern Europe this summer, performed frequently at Carnegie Hall, Sydney Opera House, Twitterer, MySpace, Facebook, YouTube enthusiast, wiki writer, podcaster, well, you get the picture.)
• Judith says:

  May 21, 2008 at 12:40 pm

  I am 80, so I am definitely an elder. Perhaps one becomes increasingly tolerant the older one gets, but I did not feel roused to anger in the way that some of Ann’s respondents did, although I did feel saddened by her lack of understanding of, and sympathy with, the needs and the capacities of other generations besides her own.

  But responding to her with harshness and heavy sarcasm, and accusing her of knowing everything, will surely not help to bring the generations closer together. As Ronni Bennett said, what is needed if we are to do this is reasonable discussion, and Ann did after all ask a question, even it sounded more like a comment. But the written word can be deceptive, and we should perhaps allow for the possibility of having misunderstood her “tone of voice”.

  And perhaps, too, it is worth considering whether different ages might learn in different ways and at different speeds. There might possibly be a case for separate classes for different ages. I would not expect to learn so easily at 80 as I did at 17, although I am confident that my intelligence is not impaired by age.

  I did not go back to formal learning after raising my family of four, but I undertook a number of demanding roles in the voluntary field which tested my capacities considerably, and were certainly a continuing education of a kind. I got my first computer at 71, which also requires constant learning, as I use it to pursue many interests, including writing, photography, family history research, various online groups, and of course keeping in touch with the world at large.

  Ann, if you are still reading the responses to your post - and I would not be too surprised if you had given up in disgust by now - please visit my blog and see what you make of it.
• Karen M says:

  May 21, 2008 at 1:47 pm

  Yes, I am the same Karen M that was the first to comment. I just thought I would say thank you. I was sitting watching the Ellen Show today and her guest was Mike Myers. He mentioned the Pythagorean Theorem during his interview with Ellen. I had not ever heard that term before and I laughed.

  I decided that hearing a term twice in as many days must be a sign. I did the research and after a while with my paper and pen, (Us elderly people still sometimes like to figure things out without a calculator), reading what it was all about and doing some practice exercises, I can safely figure out the lenght of the third side of that darn triangle.

  See? nothing learned is ever wasted. Thanks again.
• Elizabeth A says:

  May 21, 2008 at 3:24 pm

  While you are wasting time and energy questioning the necessity of elders in the classroom, they are using theirs to actually improve themselves. And somewhere along the line, your teachers failed you if they did not instill in you a respect, nay a desire for, life long learning. Maybe one day you too will stop merely taking up space, and learn because you want to.
  And as someone in her late 40’s. I really resent being told that 50’s to 60’s is elderly. I have parents of my first grade students who are elderly by your definition, and I think they would beg to differ with you.
  And one last thing, I have never heard of an “elder” student who didn’t get straight A’s when they went back to school. Can’t say the same for you typcial 18-22 year old students. So who belongs in the classroom, really?
• s'mee says:

  May 21, 2008 at 10:53 pm

  Oh Ann.

  I decided that perhaps you were having a difficult day, so I went to the blog archives and have read all that you have written (via this blog) while attending college. You’re not having a bad day, you are in a rut.

  It seems that you have a somewhat disgruntled and dissatisfied view of the world and all those around you. Something is always wrong or out of sorts. People giving you advice you don’t need, classes that are filled up by people who got there first, and those nasty pre-recs! To add to your misery, the elderly.

  I fear that there are those who may mistakenly confuse you for many of the other young adults in your age group. You know the ones, those kids over there who actually know there is a difference between paying your dues and cutting corners, talking and listening, age and maturity, education and wisdom.

  I believe that the majority of your fellow academics are more interested those differences than continually finding fault and writing complaints to get their column published. It is more difficult, and yet more rewarding, to find real truth than to write of ones’ immature annoyances.

  So, after reading all your enlightening editorials I can honestly say that perhaps you’re not just calling out Gramma, your calling out everyone. Well, we look forward to reading more of your ventures in hopes that indeed, as you promised in your first post, you learn the hard way.

  Please; learn.
• Ann Austria says:

  May 22, 2008 at 2:58 pm

  s’mee - Hey, I was told to blog about issues within the campus of Long Beach State that made me tick, so I did But not to worry, you’ll be reading about some of the happy stuff that goes on too, promise Not everything makes me angry. Look me up on the Daily 49er website (www.daily49er.com) and read my stuff there. Look at who I’ve interviewd and wrote about - you’ll find a different side to what I write here. And boy did I learn a lot from those people.

  To Karen M - No, thank YOU. And I’m glad you know how to find the third side of that darn triangle

  To everyone - Read the follow up post!
• AW says:

  May 23, 2008 at 3:50 am

  I guess you really have no idea of the value to be found in inter-generational communication and learning. Yes, people that are older (nevermind the fact that your definition of elderly seems to be bit off) can take longer with certain concepts, but so do younger people. There is a wealth of things to learn and to be gained from a learning environment that is inter-generational.

  And no, this is not coming from an “older blogger.” I am a recent college graduate who unfortunately did not have many classes that were inter-generational– I wish I had, but it just didn’t work out that way for me. However, I grew up in an inter-generational home, and have live the majority of my life around older and elderly people– caring for my grandparents, accustomed to the health issues that come with older age, as well as having all sorts of discussions on life and politics and learning alongside them.

  Don’t sell your elders short. They know and understand more than you think.

  And to the other commenters– some seem to have taken offense to the word “elderly” being applied to them. While I agree that the definition in this blog post is off, there seems to be an underlying sentiment that “elderly” is somehow bad– as if we all want to deny that aging is inevitable (unless one suffers an early death).

  I’d like to question why we’re thinking of being “elderly” as bad or embarrassing in the first place!
• Lisa says:

  May 30, 2008 at 7:08 pm

  As someone who has taught in college classrooms for the last 15 years, I want to say that I look forward to my older students (elderly is an extremely poor word choice, I think ) - these students often act as classroom role models for the more traditional youthful students and generally excel at their studies.